Lebanon falls to Hezbollah

stu · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Surrendering to Hizballah

Sword.

So long as Cid keeps within the Code of Conduct then that's fine. If he starts to demand the destruction of Jews and starts spouting Anti-Semitism then we have a problem.

Whilst we're on the subject of Western policy then lets not forget that Hamas (which is also deemed a terrorist organisation by the US) won elections in 2006 which were deemed free and fair by observers. The US and UK then refused to recognise this and then look what happened.
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"The age of excess is over. The age of entropy has begun"

Cid_Yama · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Surrendering to Hizballah

Excuse me, What part of Freedom of Speech didn't you get?

Actually, In the United States there are many rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Might I suggest you read it.

Actually, I am NOT an advocate of Hezbollah. But, that's not really what you're upset about.

You are a Bushit, and shout down anyone that posts anything that makes the Bush Administration look incompetent.

Well, guess what, last time I looked, the Constitution of the United States was the law of the land, and if your goal is to subvert the Constitution, YOU are a seditionist.
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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

3aidlillahi · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Surrendering to Hizballah

What's one's religion have to do with anything? According to a Beirut Center for Research and Information poll, 87% of Lebanese supported Hezbollah against Israel a couple of summers ago. 80% of Christians and Druze supported Hezbollah! The idea that one must be asked if he is Muslim because of any "support" for Hezbollah is lacking in reality.

I know of Christian Lebanese who supported Hezbollah during the war, before and after. They've confirmed the general sentiment among non-Muslim Lebanese populations that are shown in this aforementioned poll.

Why do you think it's important to know his religion?
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Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.

Cid_Yama · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Surrendering to Hizballah

There are no absolute rights. Freedom of speech, and the freedom of association both have limits.

Excuse me?!? Not in the United States. Not according to the Constitution.

Now you are showing yourself to be a fascist and don't even realize it.

Any infringement on the Constitution, is a violation of it.

Anyone that advocates a 'watering down' of the Constitution is and enemy of it, and therefore an enemy of the United States of America.

(And every military officer that has sworn to defend the Constitution.)
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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

the_sword · Tar Sands Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Posts: 55

Cid,

I'm sure you understand the constitution has limits, and I'm not saying you're crossing any laws by the stream of pro-hizballah articles and positions you take.

But be careful, translating your support here for Hizballah, to giving them money is a felony.

And BTW, I'm not sure how the Bush administration can be held to account for the backwardness of the Islamic countries and Muslims in general. Seriously though, this group you support wants to enslave people into the barbaric legal system that is Islamic law (Sharia).

seahorse · Expert Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2196 Location: Arkansas

Sword,

You think its pro Hizballah to post news articles that say US policy is failing in Lebanon or anywhere? That's ridiculous and an anti democratic, anti-American ideal. What any people need is the truth. If US policy is failing in Lebanon, the people of the US have a right to know and a need to know, and the MSM isn't covering it AT ALL.

Under your view of American, we can't post any articles about Iraq unless they say we are winning? How about Afghanistan, must all articles say we are winning in Afghanistan comrade Sword? I guess if we follow your logic to its complete conclusion we can't say anything to criticize the President? That's not American, that's Nazi.

Sword, please read this quote from Nazi Goering and tell me why you haven't fallen into this trap:

the_sword · Tar Sands Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Posts: 55

Cid,

I'm sorry you don't understand US law. But the limits of speech are everywhere, and the most used example is "you cannot yell fire in a theater"...

The second amendment doesn't mean you can pack a rocket launcher either.

Cid_Yama · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Surrendering to Hizballah

There are no limits to the Constitution short of changes made through a Constitutional Convention. Intentionally difficult to convene to prevent tampering with it.

Yes, the Constitution guarantees the posession of a rocket launcher. The current enforcement is in violation of the Constitution.

The only reason it stands, is the people haven't defended their rights.

If they want it changed, they could call a constitutional convention, but they haven't, which means their rights have unconstitutionally been eroded.

The Constitution is ultimately words on paper. Great ideals set down as law. But if no one stands to defend that law, those rights are lost.

Saying the Government has gotten away with violating the constitutional rights of US citizens is not the same as those rights not existing.

But they are in danger, the people need to defend them if they want them.
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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

the_sword · Tar Sands Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Posts: 55

Seahorse,

"What any people need is the truth. If US policy is failing in Lebanon, the people of the US have a right to know and a need to know,"

I agree, and thoughtful discussion of all issues is absolutely needed. But that is not what CID is doing.

the_sword · Tar Sands Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Posts: 55

Cid,

"There are no limits to the Constitution short of changes made through a Constitutional Convention. Intentionally difficult to convene to prevent tampering with it."

If that were remotely true we would live in a completely different country. I'm not trying to argue how things should be, just point out the position you are taking is simply not how the law is currently understood or practiced.

stu · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Surrendering to Hizballah

the_sword · Tar Sands Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Posts: 55

And CID I am willing to listen to a your reasoned opinion on how the US should proceed in a country like Lebanon.

Granted I think that assumes you share the interests of all westernized countries.

So First.

do you support liberal democracy or Sharia law? I view these as being mutually exclusive, do you?

How do you think the US (western interests) should handle Lebanon and the larger problem of Muslims firing rockets into Israel?

threadbear · Expert Joined: Jan 22, 2005 Posts: 7502

seahorse · Expert Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2196 Location: Arkansas

Sword,

I don't take Cid's articles as advocating support for Hizballah. In fact, he says he doesn't support Hizballah. I read these articles as proof US policy is failing in Lebabon as it is in many places throughout the world. If it is failing, the US Admin should be asking itself why and what can and should we be doing different? Instead, we continue the same failed policies. This could possibly change if Americans understood the issue, but Americans are completely ignorant of the issues (due in part bc MSM won't cover the issues).

The only two US policy makers, or potential policy makers I see taking a different approach are Jimmy Carter meeting with Hamas (and he was vehemently criticized by the US press for doing so and for his recent book which was critical of the US "peace" process) and possibly Obama who has said he would have direct talks with our "enemies" (certainly can't hurt).