How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1021 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: What Would Stop Stores From Trading In Euros?
My guess would be the fact that 99% of Americans dont have any euros.
It would be suicide for American companies in the US to demand something other than dollars from American consumers.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1021 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: What Would Stop Stores From Trading In Euros?
Kylon wrote:
Why not simply switch to another currency that's more stable?
You make it sound so easy. Think about how difficult that would be.
We couldnt even switch to the metric system a few years back.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Of course we would have to devalue the dollar, probably get rid of
most peoples savings and maybe get people used to using funky
dollar coins, but all that certainlys never going to happen here...
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2325 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: What Would Stop Stores From Trading In Euros?
Quote:
What would stop companies like Walmart from trading in Euros, and demanding Euros as payment?
What would stop companies from paying their employees in Euros?
Why not simply switch to another currency that's more stable?
What's to stop banks from storing money in Euros?
Then they can inflate all the money they want, and they won't be screwing the average American Joe.
What do you think?
I think you need to think about things a little. First off, as someone who worked in customer service while in school, you don't "demand" anything of customers; you beg them to shop at your store and you make payment as convenient as possible by taking credit/debit cards, cash, pennies even.
The second thing is why would a company want to pay their employees in Euros when dollars are cheaper? The same goes for suppliers, why get expensive Euros when your suppliers will take dollars which are cheaper to you.
Why don't banks keep Euros in reserve? Because they really don't keep anything in reserve. They borrow from the Federal Reserve, who is in the business of marketing the dollar.
Is the Euro stable? Right now it is inversely as stable as the the dollar. Having a strong currency is a double edged sword. It makes your country attractive for investment, but it also makes your exports more expensive for everyone else.
The average Joe gets screwed no matter what happens, if you want to look at it that way. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4346 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: What Would Stop Stores From Trading In Euros?
Is this really a disaster?
Is the currency "falling apart"?
If you happen to travel to Europe very frequently, yes it could be a big problem. But the impact on consumer prices in the US has been limited because imports from the EU do not account for a very large % of our GDP.
Mexico, China, Japan, and Canada account for fully 1/2 of America's international trade.
Against the Mexican peso, the Dollar has actually gained in value over the past 5 years. The Yuan has only increased by about 8%. The Yen is basically flat although we have sunk below the lows of 2005. The Canadian dollar has gained dramatically...and it's killing them leading to an economic slowdown in the Canadian manufacturing sector. That's what happens when 80%+ of your exports go to a country against which you are losing your competitive edge.
The Dollar has declined most rapidly against the Euro and Gold.
Fortunately, no one is asking America to pay its debt in gold so we don't have to discuss this one.
The Eurozone has a significant trade deficit and a sizable current account deficit. Don't believe me, try to name one large or medium sized country in Europe with a budget surplus.
The Euro is gaining in value because the dollar is declining (and is only allowed to decline against a few free currencies)...the Euro is not gaining in value because the European Union's economy is robust and growing strongly or because the EU has its fiscal house in order because it doesn't.
Comparatively high interest rates in Europe are pushing up the currency valuation but if it is not based on economic fundamentals, they are sitting themselves up for a decline.
Long Story Short.
Businesses are not going to trade in Euros because their suppliers aren't European. Their employees are unlikely to accept Euros because they have nothing to buy with them.
I have 13 Euro and 83 cents sitting on my desk that I'm considering trading for $15 (an abysmally low exchange rate) because I can't buy anything with this stuff and banks don't take change. Unless I can find one of these "We Take Euros" stores, I'm screwed.
You would need to see inflation hit levels at Zimbabwe levels for domestic American economic activity to shift over to Euros. And based on our trade patterns, it's more likely that we would see a shift to Canadian dollars. At least we can drive (ride ponies) to Canada in a few hours to find a willing customer base for Loonies.
[if this post rambles, forgive me, I'm sick and extremely stressed out] _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: May 13, 2007 Posts: 592 Location: Athabasca, Alberta
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: What Would Stop Stores From Trading In Euros?
To put it simply the legal currency in the United States is the greenback, (all debts public and private), to demand payment in any other currency would be illegal.
Now that does not apply to debts incurred in foreign countries where local money must be used unless there is an agreement to accept some mutual acceptable currency. _________________ Appuis ait fabrum esse suae quemque fortunae.
Alias Redneck
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 627 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: What Would Stop Stores From Trading In Euros?
Tyler_JC wrote:
And based on our trade patterns, it's more likely that we would see a shift to Canadian dollars. At least we can drive (ride ponies) to Canada in a few hours to find a willing customer base for Loonies.
We don't have anywhere near enough currency to service the circulatory needs of the United States; if we printed enough to do so, it would be utterly worthless. Aside from maybe the ten million people living right along the border, there's no way Canadian dollars could be of any day-to-day use in the States. Probably a better idea is just for people from the US to start moving to Canada and even out some of the disparity over the next couple decades. Mind you, our capacity to settle and accommodate them might be hard-pressed to even match the birthrate of a country with nine times our current population, never mind the quarter million people we already admit from around the world every year. Long and short of it is, our ability to be part of the solution is limited.
Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 288 Location: Houston, TX
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: Re: What Would Stop Stores From Trading In Euros?
No currency comes close to US dollar in terms of circulation volume in the world and reputation. Everybody knows America.
Now the only currency that can come close is Chinese Yuan. Not now but in the near future. They have the name, they have the economy they have the influence all over the world not as much as US but it is getting there.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6368 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: What Would Stop Stores From Trading In Euros?
joeltrout wrote:
My guess would be the fact that 99% of Americans dont have any euros.
Blacksmith wrote:
To put it simply the legal currency in the United States is the greenback, (all debts public and private), to demand payment in any other currency would be illegal.
Well, there are, what, about 350 million people in the Eurozone now. That's about a fifth again as many as live in the US. The EU does more export trade than the US now; it has a positive balance of trade with most of its partners except China (but then, who DOES have a positive balance of trade with China these days?). They bolted together several major currencies and a huge free trade zone; it was probably inevitable. If the British had joined (five years ago, they sure would have gotten a better fixed exchange than they'd get now), the euro would be far and away the biggest currency. Really, the only reason the US dollar is still as big a player as it is is that it still has the status of the principal reserve currency in the world. I don't know how much longer that's going to last; I think within a decade, it'll be just one of several, and things will be rather different for the average person in the States when that support is knocked away.
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