Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Treasury Plans Social Security Debit Card
cube wrote:
emersonbiggins wrote:
Unfortunately that graph will prove quite ephemeral when TSHTF, ...
Unfortunately you're probably right. There is an "implicit hint" within American history / econ class in high school that basically says it was government with it's public works projects that pulled the nation out of the great depression. The USA runs on Keynesian, not Milton Friedman economic theory.
Right-o, cube. The delusions otherwise are quite strong, but that's all they are - delusions. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3967 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Treasury Plans Social Security Debit Card
No checks are mailed out for unemployment benefits anymore in Minnesota. Only direct deposit or the "debt card" for those with no bank account is used now.
Quote:
Comerica Bank has been selected as the card issuer for the program, which is targeted at Social Security and Supplemental Security Income recipients who don't have a bank account.
It will save them a bunch by not having to print out checks anymore.
Joined: Jul 04, 2007 Posts: 1857 Location: via corinas inundum
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
When you all look at social security, are you ever reminded of a pyramid scheme? I was thinking about that earlier and it makes me wonder how the government can prosecute individuals when they themselves run the largest one going.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4073 Location: Graceland
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
Yes, it is a pyramid scheme.
Among other bad things about it is that it presupposes an ever growing pool of workers to pay current benefits.
If it were a private pension plan, the administrators would be in prison.
It is a completely unfunded promise to pay an enormous amount of money out in the future.
Benefits will be cut, payroll taxes increased, and it will still be underfunded.
Medicare is worse. _________________
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
It does not have to be run as a pyramid scheme. I understand the balance is basically taken by the government and used for what should be funded by general revenues.
You Americans should see how some other countries operate their social security systems more professionally, many have dedicated investment pools and they have a separate board of directors, independent auditors and actuaries who set contribution rates.
The way SS is run in the USA befits a banana republic. A country that has so much financial expertise too. So many just see social security payments as if they were a tax, not a form of savings. Sometimes I think the government itself has put a negative spin on the concept as some in power seem opposed to the whole idea of social security.
What a shame, because the concept for it is logical. It is unpredictable how much money one needs to set aside for retirement, some live much longer than others. By pooling the savings from everybody, all can live a better life in their final years. The concept goes way back to Germany in the 19th century, one of the first forms of social insurance.
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 598 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
jasonraymondson wrote:
When you all look at social security, are you ever reminded of a pyramid scheme? I was thinking about that earlier and it makes me wonder how the government can prosecute individuals when they themselves run the largest one going.
Just a thought
Not only is it a pyramid, but the money in the trust fund is not money, but treasury bonds (or as I call them IOUs). The aproximate 2.5 trillion dollars in the social security trust fund isn't there and they will have to start printing more money, or tax everyone more in order to cover those treasury bonds starting in 2017.
Another fine example of your government at work. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Jan 14, 2008 Posts: 321 Location: The Yukon
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
jasonraymondson wrote:
When you all look at social security, are you ever reminded of a pyramid scheme? I was thinking about that earlier and it makes me wonder how the government can prosecute individuals when they themselves run the largest one going.
Just a thought
After u do more homework, it will be found that the CBO determined in 2004 that a mere 1.6% increase in payroll taxes will extend the funded liability from 2045 to 2075.
Unfortunately, neither Party in Congress wants to be responsible for initiating the bad news increase...
With the time lapse, it is probable that 1.8% is now req'd. _________________ www.TrendLines.ca/scenarios.htm Home of the Real Peak Date ... set by geologists (not pundits)
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 598 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
FreddyH wrote:
jasonraymondson wrote:
When you all look at social security, are you ever reminded of a pyramid scheme? I was thinking about that earlier and it makes me wonder how the government can prosecute individuals when they themselves run the largest one going.
Just a thought
After u do more homework, it will be found that the CBO determined in 2004 that a mere 1.6% increase in payroll taxes will extend the funded liability from 2045 to 2075.
Unfortunately, neither Party in Congress wants to be responsible for initiating the bad news increase...
With the time lapse, it is probable that 1.8% is now req'd.
You are very correct on that, no politician is willing to stick his neck out except to raise benefits.
However, the party is going to last only as long as there is more money coming in than going out. Once they are forced to tap the trust fund in 2017, things will get tough all over. I'm betting the CBO study did not look at reality but simply the numbers on the spreadsheet; the numbers should reflect reality, but they don't. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3967 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
BigTex wrote:
Yes, it is a pyramid scheme.
Among other bad things about it is that it presupposes an ever growing pool of workers to pay current benefits.
If it were a private pension plan, the administrators would be in prison.
It is a completely unfunded promise to pay an enormous amount of money out in the future.
Benefits will be cut, payroll taxes increased, and it will still be underfunded.
Medicare is worse.
My Mother just got cut off from her annuity. She never received ONE statement other than those 1099's in 12 years time. She doesn't even know what they invested her money in? It was in a life-time annuity when my father was alive, but after he died, they just re-invested the money into another fund without her authority.
ING hasn't sent out any information about the fund after many calls. They just say, "the money is gone". The Attorney General has been contacted. Next we will need a Lawyer.
Those private funds will Fark you over given the chance.
Be careful on what you ask for.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3967 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
jasonraymondson wrote:
When you all look at social security, are you ever reminded of a pyramid scheme? I was thinking about that earlier and it makes me wonder how the government can prosecute individuals when they themselves run the largest one going.
Just a thought
Joined: Jul 04, 2007 Posts: 1857 Location: via corinas inundum
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
vision-master wrote:
jasonraymondson wrote:
When you all look at social security, are you ever reminded of a pyramid scheme? I was thinking about that earlier and it makes me wonder how the government can prosecute individuals when they themselves run the largest one going.
Just a thought
The eyes of a child.
What?
Anywho. There is no money in social security anyway. I just brought this up to get a decent discussion going regarding the solvency and the future of people who rely on social security to keep them off the street. But, hey call me retarded, that sure won't piss me off.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3967 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
jasonraymondson wrote:
vision-master wrote:
jasonraymondson wrote:
When you all look at social security, are you ever reminded of a pyramid scheme? I was thinking about that earlier and it makes me wonder how the government can prosecute individuals when they themselves run the largest one going.
Just a thought
The eyes of a child.
What?
Anywho. There is no money in social security anyway. I just brought this up to get a decent discussion going regarding the solvency and the future of people who rely on social security to keep them off the street. But, hey call me retarded, that sure won't piss me off.
Tax all income (no ceiling on earnings) with FICA tax. Problem solved.
Joined: Jul 04, 2007 Posts: 1857 Location: via corinas inundum
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: Re: The Social Security pyramid scheme?
vision-master wrote:
jasonraymondson wrote:
vision-master wrote:
jasonraymondson wrote:
When you all look at social security, are you ever reminded of a pyramid scheme? I was thinking about that earlier and it makes me wonder how the government can prosecute individuals when they themselves run the largest one going.
Just a thought
The eyes of a child.
What?
Anywho. There is no money in social security anyway. I just brought this up to get a decent discussion going regarding the solvency and the future of people who rely on social security to keep them off the street. But, hey call me retarded, that sure won't piss me off.
Tax all income (no ceiling on earnings) with FICA tax. Problem solved.
According to my math, they need to tax every working citizen $12,500 to replace the social security funds they have stolen.
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