Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
I'm *technically* NOT anti-EV contrary to the infamous reputation I might have on this forum.
I'd be more than happy to buy an EV car if a major company (Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, etc...) builds an EV car with these specs:
1) $20,000
2) 300 mile range
3) hold 5 people total
4) freeway capable
Everybody do me a favor; give me a call whenever you see this.
my cell phone number is 1-800-PEA-KOIL
I'll just sit here and wait patiently. Let's hope I don't have to wait too long.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3122 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
The only way to get 300 mile range is through supercapacitors or the silicon nanowire lithium which is all still science fiction right now. It's a longshot whether that stuff will come to market before the po crash takes down advanced R&D with it. Even if it does, it will be too expensive to matter.
People want a drop-in replacement for gas cars. They aren't going to get it. They are going to have to adapt the way they drive to suit electric vehicles, or be willing to pay for gas in a plugin hybrid if they want extended range.
Joined: Mar 28, 2005 Posts: 399 Location: Northern California, USA
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Vegas wrote:
abelardlindsay wrote:
So the tesla costs $90,000. If you drive it for 100,000 miles and an ICE two seater will cost you $15,000.
Assuming the electricity cost to charge it is negligeble and the two seater gets 35mpg. You'll break even on gas is at $26.25/gallon. If the ICE got 10mpg break even would be $8.75/gallon.
At $50,000 for the 35mpg ICE the breakeven would be $8.75/Gallon and the breakeven for the 10mpg ICE would be $5.00/gallon.
Not a terrable way to look at it, but the sticker shock at the dealer is the real clintcher. Gas gets to $10 a gallon, people will scream bloody murder for any alternitive.
You also have to assume that someone who would have enough money lying around to blow on a tesla wouldn't be caught dead in anything less than a $50,000 car anyway .
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
abelardlindsay wrote:
...
You also have to assume that someone who would have enough money lying around to blow on a tesla wouldn't be caught dead in anything less than a $50,000 car anyway .
I think you're onto something here.
Do you know what PO is going to feel like?
Imagine waking up the next day and realizing that your paycheck just dropped by 5%. And the next year you get another 5% cut again.
and again and again........
That's what PO is going to feel like.
How realistic is it to assume that Joe Sixpack is going to go out there and buy a $50,000 car?
The only people who will buy such a car are the ones who used to be able to afford a $100,000 car.
WhiteStar is the codename of a planned electric car from Tesla Motors. It is expected to be the second vehicle produced by the company, after its Tesla Roadster electric sportscar. Release is anticipated for the 2010 model year[1].
.....
Initial pricing is estimated at $50,000 for the standard model or $65,000 for a premium model with greater performance and range.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3122 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
cube wrote:
There's a 3rd way. improved aerodynamics
Even with aerodynamics you can't get 300 miles without a prohibitively expensive battery pack. Also, aerodynamics doesn't help range at low speeds. It just improves EV range on highway cruising.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3122 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:54 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
cube wrote:
Imagine waking up the next day and realizing that your paycheck just dropped by 5%. And the next year you get another 5% cut again.
I think the smart people are going to become efficiency experts really fast and they will continue to optimize their lifestyle to tread water on their finances. I think it's doable--for a while. But the clock is ticking.
WhiteStar is the codename of a planned electric car from Tesla Motors. It is expected to be the second vehicle produced by the company, after its Tesla Roadster electric sportscar. Release is anticipated for the 2010 model year[1].
.....
Initial pricing is estimated at $50,000 for the standard model or $65,000 for a premium model with greater performance and range.
Sounds like smoke to me. OK, you gonna make a high end car, or a mid-priced sedan-Hell we'll make BOTH.
Please.
What is going on is a widespread wanking by software development jerk-offs thinking that vehicles are just like writing code for doomIII.
You guys like predictions: no whitestar will ever roll.
They want to build a 'real' factory, They got no idea what be getting into, $100mil hard money for tooling and factory...
Operating capitol that is staggering...
Heres the bike that every greenie tosser has been blathering about for TEN years. These guys realy stepped on their collective dicks.
Hey, we're going to save the world! Oh, maby not.
What a waste. Would have been better off strapping a 6horse briggs&stratton to a BMX bike.
How do you build something so shitty, that every greenie is wetting himself waiting for it, and then sell one in ten of your production.
525lbs, with a 120lb battery, crap, an eight year old kid could tell you thats not going to work.
This just shows that EV's ain't stupid, it's people who are stupid.
WhiteStar is the codename of a planned electric car from Tesla Motors. It is expected to be the second vehicle produced by the company, after its Tesla Roadster electric sportscar. Release is anticipated for the 2010 model year[1].
.....
Initial pricing is estimated at $50,000 for the standard model or $65,000 for a premium model with greater performance and range.
Sounds like smoke to me. OK, you gonna make a high end car, or a mid-priced sedan-Hell we'll make BOTH.
Please.
What is going on is a widespread wanking by software development jerk-offs thinking that vehicles are just like writing code for doomIII.
You guys like predictions: no whitestar will ever roll.
They want to build a 'real' factory, They got no idea what be getting into, $100mil hard money for tooling and factory...
Operating capitol that is staggering...
Heres the bike that every greenie tosser has been blathering about for TEN years. These guys realy stepped on their collective dicks.
Hey, we're going to save the world! Oh, maby not.
What a waste. Would have been better off strapping a 6horse briggs&stratton to a BMX bike.
How do you build something so shitty, that every greenie is wetting himself waiting for it, and then sell one in ten of your production.
525lbs, with a 120lb battery, crap, an eight year old kid could tell you thats not going to work.
This just shows that EV's ain't stupid, it's people who are stupid.
Some other large scooter or motorcycle company will buy them out and then start a large scale production and bring down the price by more then half and you will see them in large numbers on the road in a few years if not sooner.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Vegas wrote:
...What is going on is a widespread wanking by software development jerk-offs thinking that vehicles are just like writing code for doomIII.
If these tech geeks like, Elon Musk, who made their fortune off the dot-com boom want to lose their money that badly that's fine with me.
I respect the Tesla company only because it used private money and did NOT try to strong arm the tax payers.
Vegas wrote:
...You guys like predictions: no whitestar will ever roll.
I guess it's my turn to make a prediction.
Peak Oil == peak electric cars.
EV cars exist only because some people have too much money they don't know what to do with it. PO will solve that problem.
Joined: Mar 29, 2008 Posts: 70 Location: Ashland,OR
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Electric_Economy_2025 wrote:
Some other large scooter or motorcycle company will buy them out and then start a large scale production and bring down the price by more then half and you will see them in large numbers on the road in a few years if not sooner.
They DID large scale prodution, 2000 units. No one is going to buy that hunk of crap. The company is sitting on 1700 bikes. Ten million in inventory. When they released it they sold 60. It has taken two years to sell 170. Vectrix is a bleeding pig in a ditch.
The china scooters cost $1500-3000, some have better range, the US isn't buying them, but the chinese sure are. I've ridden a $2500 scooter, 60v40ah pack, ~200lbs. Nice bike, 3.5kw peak power, 40mph.
I don't remember the brand, long duck dong manufacturing. I hate scooters, but there you go. It is being done, just not here.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Electric_Economy_2025 wrote:
Have a look at this beauties small and cheap the future of America's roads.
Grean Vehicles
This is why EV cars will NEVER be economically viable
geo metro xfi specs:
year from 1989 through 1994
cost $6,999 Original Retail Price
mpg 58
images:
pic 1 pic 2
When it comes down to the bottom line.
Because that's what post peak oil is all about right?
Cutting back on spending and buying only what you can afford.
EV cars will never never never be able to beat that price, even if gasoline was $10 / gallon.
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