Joined: Mar 29, 2008 Posts: 70 Location: Ashland,OR
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
http://www.evtamerica.com/
One of the better ones
You can't walk into a MC dealership and get one, the US don't ride bikes, besides harlys. Ya can order one.
Riding is better than driving, get one;)
Not as fast as the vectrix, but dude, look around a little, alot of the people that did get a vetrix ended up with a bike that simply didn't work at ALL. Like total software meltdown.
Like the folks building it are compleat idiots. Realy, they are.
I'm not saying it can't be done, I am saying vetrix made a piss-poor attempt. 2000 units is enough to be a good buissness(if they had sold!). It's small, but OK, economy of scale won't kill ya right off. There are a number of smaller motorcycle companies that scale, Gasgas, scorpa, bultaco, MV, with KTM on the large side of the smaller guys.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2778 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
cube wrote:
Starvid wrote:
cube wrote:
However I've said it before and I'll say it again. Until I can walk into a car dealership and buy an EV car for cheaper than an ICE car:
I will never buy an EV car.
I think my opinion represents 95% of the population.
Don't you think electric cars deserve a certain price premium considering their much lower operation and maintenance costs? At least according to discounted cash flow analysis. Bu how many people do a DCFA when they buy a car?
That sounds fair enough. For example if somebody built a $20,000 EV car that had the same performance characteristics as a $12,000 ICE car then yeah I think that sounds like a good deal. However my gut feeling tells me that will never happen.
I'm not a fan of EV cars. If things got really bad for me financially speaking and I needed a car.... I sure as hell wouldn't go out and buy a $90K or $60K or even a $30K EV car. I'd just buy a used ICE car for $7,000.
What new car sells for $12k? Sure, stuff like the Logan which is for third world countries with crappy currencies, but in a developed country you can't get a new car for under $25k. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2778 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Vegas wrote:
http://www.evtamerica.com/
One of the better ones
You can't walk into a MC dealership and get one, the US don't ride bikes, besides harlys. Ya can order one.
Riding is better than driving, get one;)
Not as fast as the vectrix, but dude, look around a little, alot of the people that did get a vetrix ended up with a bike that simply didn't work at ALL. Like total software meltdown.
Like the folks building it are compleat idiots. Realy, they are.
I'm not saying it can't be done, I am saying vetrix made a piss-poor attempt. 2000 units is enough to be a good buissness(if they had sold!). It's small, but OK, economy of scale won't kill ya right off. There are a number of smaller motorcycle companies that scale, Gasgas, scorpa, bultaco, MV, with KTM on the large side of the smaller guys.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Vegas wrote:
http://www.evtamerica.com/
One of the better ones
You can't walk into a MC dealership and get one, the US don't ride bikes, besides harlys. Ya can order one.
Riding is better than driving, get one;)
Not as fast as the vectrix, but dude, look around a little, alot of the people that did get a vetrix ended up with a bike that simply didn't work at ALL. Like total software meltdown.
Like the folks building it are compleat idiots. Realy, they are.
I'm not saying it can't be done, I am saying vetrix made a piss-poor attempt. 2000 units is enough to be a good buissness(if they had sold!). It's small, but OK, economy of scale won't kill ya right off. There are a number of smaller motorcycle companies that scale, Gasgas, scorpa, bultaco, MV, with KTM on the large side of the smaller guys.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Vegas wrote:
I have built about a million prototypes, not so many for sale;)
I don't know how old you are but if you have built over a million PT's then you have been building about 55 protoypes a day for 365 days a year for over 50 years wow, when do you SEnS
Joined: Mar 29, 2008 Posts: 70 Location: Ashland,OR
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Starvid wrote:
What's the problem with the Vectrix?
Lots, but basicly the folks building it didn't understand physics.
It weighs too much, for the batt it carries, poor range.
It is running BLDC, brushless DC motor, very expensive controller.
Good EFF%, but complex, costly. Very compex planitary gearing, heavy, costly.
$11k for a product worth $6k, or less
They built 2000 bikes and sold less than 200.
An example of out of touch lame CEO's more worried about the stock profile than the product. A ton of hype, with no substance.
Last edited by Vegas on Thu May 15, 2008 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Mar 29, 2008 Posts: 70 Location: Ashland,OR
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Electric_Economy_2025 wrote:
walk into Any MC dealer ?
MC=motorcycle.
Actualy, there are some dealerships in bigger cities that sell ev scoots.
Not bloody many, like I was sayin, two-wheel ev sales are very small in the states...
The EVT ain't the only one out there, there are about a bizzilion china scooter companies making bikes, they just have a difficult time getting them to sell in the states.
Joined: Mar 29, 2008 Posts: 70 Location: Ashland,OR
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Electric_Economy_2025 wrote:
Vegas wrote:
I have built about a million prototypes, not so many for sale;)
I don't know how old you are but if you have built over a million PT's then you have been building about 55 protoypes a day for 365 days a year for over 50 years wow, when do you SEnS
I feel like i am 50. Naw, but I have thought about batt driven stuff alot.
Working in a different industry now, but sorta miss making wicked bikes. Pay is alot better making film industry equipment;)
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Starvid wrote:
...
What new car sells for $12k? Sure, stuff like the Logan which is for third world countries with crappy currencies, but in a developed country you can't get a new car for under $25k.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Electric_Economy_2025 wrote:
.....
WTF would you even compare the metro to and small EV ?
....
you got any better ideas? What do you want me to do, compare the energy efficiency of an SUV to a small EV car? Hows that suppose to be "fair"?
Electric_Economy_2025 wrote:
.....
First off people that want and ev will spend 10 to 20 thousand for one that gets them from point A to point B
....
Please point me to an EV car company selling cars within that price range.
Electric_Economy_2025 wrote:
.....
all the other dumbasses that have a 5000 pound suv to move 200 pounds of person will either change or take public transportation.
....
they will buy smaller cars
Electric_Economy_2025 wrote:
.....
I know plenty of people that want to switch they just don't have anything to switch to, I think you will be surprized on how fast people change their habbits, but then again your a DOOMER with no hope or vision so I doubt you will see the change.
please point me too an EV car company selling a car with these specs:
1) $20,000
2) 300 mile range
3) hold 5 people total
4) freeway capable
and I will be happy to buy an EV car
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
mos6507 wrote:
yesplease wrote:
300 miles at 55mph should be doable with a large lead acid pack and the right donor vehicle.
The right donor vehicle would be a flat barge of batteries with a 90 pound weakling strapped to it.
Do you even bother reading what I post, or are you just determined to be contrary for it's own sake?
yesplease wrote:
Older/lighter significantly areomodded pickup w/ a huge pack at 55mph.
mos6507 wrote:
Oh, and going level ground as well, at 20mph.
yesplease wrote:
300 miles at 55mph should be doable
It would still be ~200-600lbs shy of the gvwr depending on model. Just because ya hate physics don't mean ya have ta take it out on others... _________________
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3627 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
yesplease wrote:
It would still be ~200-600lbs shy of the gvwr depending on model. Just because ya hate physics don't mean ya have ta take it out on others...
Lead acid has had 100+ years in EVs and I've never heard of even an experimental vehicle going 300 miles on a single charge. If you think you can do it, put your money where your mouth is.
There is a reason almost every vehicle on the EV Album has about a 40 mile range. You quickly reach a point of diminishing returns if you weigh down your vehicle with more and more lead.
If you want long range, you have to use a better battery chemistry.
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