Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4381 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
We come from the stars.
From Genesis:
After the sons of God took human wives there were giants in the Earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became the mighty men which were of old, men of renown. The Nefilim were upon the Earth, in those days and thereafter too, when the sons of the gods cohabitated with the daughters of the Adam, and they bore children unto them. They were the mighty ones of Eternity - the people of the shem.' Nefilim stems from the Semitic root NFL, 'to be cast down.'
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Hmm...
The Hebrew of nephilim is נפלים, which may mean “those causing others to fall”. Abraham ibn Ezra proposes that they were called this because men's hearts would fail at the sight of them. Some (e.g. Jean Leclerc and Peter of Aquila) suggest that it is derived from the warlike nature of the Nephilim, comparing the usage of Naphal in Job 1:15 "And the Sabeans fell upon them" where Naphal means "to take in battle". Alternatively, Shadal understands nephilim as deriving from the Hebrew word פלא Pela which means wonderous[6].
The nephilim come from a union between “sons of God” (בני האלהים “b’nei ha-'elohim” ) and “daughters of man”. In Aramaic culture, the term Nephila specifically referred to the constellation of Orion, and thus Nephilim to Orion's semi-divine descendants (cf. Anakim from Anak);the implication being that this also is the origin of the Biblical Nephilim.
However see Genesis Rabbah 26,8 that explicitly states that this is not the correct interpretation and that it should be understood simply as a title for a judge or a mighty warrior.
Btu _________________ only the paranoid survive
Last edited by btu2012 on Fri May 16, 2008 7:53 am; edited 3 times in total
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
threadbear wrote:
btu--The most recent discoveries about the evolution of species, suggest that Darwinian evolution is incomplete. This is in large part due to the scientific community's fixation, on predator, prey relationships, in the animal kingdom, and relative ignorance of parasitism and symbiosis, until relatively recently. Wiki symbiogenesis.
As well, Stephen J. Gould, made the startling claim that the adult human anatomy was similar in almost every way to the infant chimp. I could expand, but will bore people out of their wits, as I've expounded on this, at length in past threads. The implications, to me, though, are staggering.
Big Tex--Not quite, Dude!
I may be wrong on this one, but I read that we also share 50% of our DNA with bannanas. Evolving from a Bannana is going to be my new theory, in the grand scheme of it all that is just as plausible right ? Common DNA is evidence of a common (as opposed to random) designer.
Believe it or not I watch Neil Tyson Degrasse (or whatever his name is on NOVA), he says the craziest things like, "Nature does some amazing things' and he also rambles on and on about how complex everything is, but then says it all happened by chance and randomness.
Question: How many times have you shuffled a deck of cards and had them come out in perfect order ? That has the same chance of occurring times about a hundred billion (even in 20 billion years) that you would have the universe evolving, and that is even if you could explain the origins of matter and energy.
How many times have you opened a jar of peanut butter and had a mouse jump out ? (that is an extremen scenario, but you should get the point).
Thermodynamics and Entropy alone completely abolish the evolutionary theory.
I can see your "experts" and raise you a couple more (even Athiests) if you wish. "Science" does not even agree with itself, all a person needs to do is spend some time searhcing the internet and you can find theory after theory.
I am so outspoken on this because it is ALL theory and no fact, but is portrayed as FACT by our institutions of "Higher Learning".
Last edited by AlwaysThere on Fri May 16, 2008 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
AlwaysThere wrote:
I am so outspoken on this becasue it is ALL theory and no fact, but is portrayed as FACT by our institutions of "Higher Learning".
Evolution is definitely only a theory.
Btu
I am OK with theories being taught in School- Even the Theory of evolution. There are also many lies in textbooks that have been proven to be lies that are still being taugh as facts. I am not saying it is a conspiricy, just most likely bureacratic laziness.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Quote:
but only an uneducated and primitive mind can claim that God has been proven not to exist. Take philosophy 101.
Both atheism and theism are beliefs, none of them has been proved or disproved in the logical sense.
Oh yea, where is it?
There's no God because no one has shown empirical proof of a God.
Only an idiot would entertain such thoughts.
I suppose you are gonna tell me the easter bunny, santa and his little elves, and the tooth fairy haven't been proven either, but might just be lurking around the corner.
I truly don't believe I am the primitive mind here, at least I don't waste my time pondering such rubbish.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
AlwaysThere wrote:
I am so outspoken on this becasue it is ALL theory and no fact, but is portrayed as FACT by our institutions of "Higher Learning".
Evolution is definitely only a theory.
Btu
I used to work with a SW engineer who has a PHD in Philosphy (which as I understand has a lot of statistical analysis in it ?) - He was an extremely intelligent man, he and I used to banter about evolution vs creation, kind of like we do here. Finally one day he told me that evolution was similiar to being in a room, but only refusing to go on one side of it for the fear of suffocating because all the Oxygen molecules could have migrated to the side of the room he is on. Of course that is so far beyond the likelihood of happening that it is not even considered to be an event that could happen.
Last edited by AlwaysThere on Fri May 16, 2008 10:17 am; edited 2 times in total
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4381 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
AlwaysThere wrote:
I am so outspoken on this becasue it is ALL theory and no fact, but is portrayed as FACT by our institutions of "Higher Learning".
Evolution is definitely only a theory.
Btu
Evolution Theory:
In science a theory is a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise verified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition.
Creationism Belief:
Creationism is a religious belief that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe were created in their original form by a deity (often the Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam) or deities, whose existence is presupposed.[1] In relation to the creation-evolution controversy the term creationism (or strict creationism) is commonly used to refer to religiously-motivated rejection of evolution.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
greenworm wrote:
Oh yea, where is it?
There's no God because no one has shown empirical proof of a God.
Only an idiot would entertain such thoughts.
I suppose you are gonna tell me the easter bunny, santa and his little elves, and the tooth fairy haven't been proven either, but might just be lurking around the corner.
I truly don't believe I am the primitive mind here, at least I don't waste my time pondering such rubbish.
Man, get a high-school education. You sound like a complete moron with a ego problem.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4381 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
greenworm wrote:
Oh yea, where is it?
There's no God because no one has shown empirical proof of a God.
Only an idiot would entertain such thoughts.
I suppose you are gonna tell me the easter bunny, santa and his little elves, and the tooth fairy haven't been proven either, but might just be lurking around the corner.
I truly don't believe I am the primitive mind here, at least I don't waste my time pondering such rubbish.
Man, get a high-school education. You sound like a complete moron with a ego problem.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Quote:
I used to work with a SW engineer who has a PHD in Philosphy (which as I understand has a lot of statistical analysis in it ?)
Actually only a small subset, logic classes most definitely. Then you have Betrand Russell who even concluded 'that mathematical truths were purely tautological truths'. I was a class shy from declaring a minor, but why bother, it's not like it was going to get me a job.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
AlwaysThere wrote:
I used to work with a SW engineer who has a PHD in Philosphy (which as I understand has a lot of statistical analysis in it ?) - He was an extremely intelligent man, he and I used to banter about evolution vs creation, kind of like we do here. Finally one day he told me that evolution was similiar to being in a room, but only refusing to go on one side of it for the fear of suffocating because all the Oxygen molecules could have migrated to the side of the room he is on. Of course that is so far beyond the likelihood of happening that it is not even considered to be an even that could happen.
In my opinion (as a physicist) most current probabilistic critiques of evolution are weak, because the randomness involved (which is chemical/quantum and thermodynamic in nature) is constrained by nonlinearities. The probabilistic arguments you use do not take that into account, e.g. you don't have a counting/uniform measure but a much more complicated measure on the space of possible outcomes.
You can see an example of how complex this really is in the problem of protein folding, which is a major challenge of current molecular biology.
I disagree that thermodynamics or statistical physics (classical or quantum) provide meaningful arguments against evolution. The processes postulated to be responsible for evolution are highly nonlinear and take place in open systems far from equilibrium, so arguments based on equipartition in closed thermodynamic systems at equilibrium are largely irrelevant.
Btu _________________ only the paranoid survive
Last edited by btu2012 on Fri May 16, 2008 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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