I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4331 Location: Graceland
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
lper100km wrote:
What’s with the venom over evolution? The pioneers of the concept, working independently, were both Christian. Mendel was a monk in a teaching order and Darwin, though a non conformist, was recognized by the Anglican Church through his burial in Westminster Abbey. Neither man thought that their discovery denied the existence of God. Neither do many scientists working in the field today.
One would think that God would be pleased that his creations are so capable of discovering his secrets, albeit slowly.
I agree.
Wasn't this a very common belief among the founding fathers?--that the world is a clock and God built it.
Evolution could just be the gears of the clock turning. _________________
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4753 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
greenworm wrote:
a class is a collection of sets (or sometimes other mathematical objects) that can be unambiguously defined by a property that all its members share. The precise definition of "class" depends on foundational context.
I'm not trying to be smarter than you, so get off your Fark pedastool, there is no proof of a God.
Period.
I think you need a little meta-analysis ego boy.
an you do not exist either..........
Do you have any morals? If so, why? Where did they come from.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
BigTex wrote:
Well, there are spontaneous burst of technology and civilization here and there through history that makes one wonder if maybe there weren't inspirations or guidance provided from some external source.
There could be more mundane explanations for these, societies and cultures are "nonlinear" so one could expect emerging phenomena.
Quote:
The idea in 2001: A Space Odyssey that aliens are monitoring our progress is not ridiculous. In fact, I would expect any intelligent alien life form to be curious about what we may be doing.
That would be a reasonable expectation provided that intelligent life is rare (infrequent) in the universe or that it has some morally important value. Otherwise we might actually be quite boring for an alien species. Or they might be interested in us for selfish reasons.
Quote:
Unfortunately, the strongest argument against aliens visiting us in person (in alien?) is that, assuming they exist, presumably they have the same energy issues we do--i.e., no matter how much energy you have, it's still finite, and thus allocating it is a values judgment, and the value of investing what would be necessary for deep space exploration against other needs seems like a losing proposition in most cases. In other words, I don't see the survival value in exploring space, given that the cost of doing so would seem to eliminate any potential benefit that could be gained from such exploration when it comes to survival value.
That would depend strongly on the technology available (whose scientific basis might be unknown to us) and on the amount of energy available. A Kardashev II civilization might have enough means for such exploration. Of course automatic probes (von Neumann or similar) would be more rational.
Quote:
OTOH, if the aliens have learned to cover time and space telepathically, or something like that, then all bets are off.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
threadbear wrote:
Make of this what you will.
So you are suggesting that we are a domesticated species. Domesticated by whom ?
Btu
I'm suggesting that based purely on some pretty solid observations, Charles Fort could have been right. We may be property. Our very strong desire to worship being or beings, we end up calling "father" or "mother" could be interpreted as a strong neotenous drive. One has to ask themselves this question, though. If we are the creation of an intellectually superior race, that has an ongoing system of management, through organized religion (Visions of the Virgin, Fatima, etc..) are we any less a creation of a conscious universe, of a true God, which also includes features, like random selection, and spontaneous mutation?
Jesus' purpose, the way I interpret the bible, was to reaffirm compassion and love, undermining the authority of the Old Testament. In so doing, he was reminding humanity that (no matter what their origin) we are all one, that we all live on after death (the Jews of his time didn't believe in an afterlife.), and that we are a part of a conscious universe and not subject to the constraints, laws, imposed on us by an alien culture.(old testament)
This isn't my "belief", it's just an idea I toss around. Working hypothesis, at this point.
Last edited by threadbear on Fri May 16, 2008 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
greenworm wrote:
More like a phenomenologist that came to atheistic conclusion.
But you do accept that one can't really disprove the existence of "God", if the later concept is properly formulated (and there are many such consistent formulations, e.g. a la Kant). Do you agree with this ?
Btu _________________ only the paranoid survive
Last edited by btu2012 on Fri May 16, 2008 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13065 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
greenworm wrote:
That's funny, I just engaged in 2 threads in the planning forum showing beginners what to use for potassium/phosphorus which doesn't need to be transported. I'm gonna miss bat guano.
I've been fishing alot, studying the Nipmuc stone structures and writing a book about them, umm, sorry no ponderance of God.
Great! No need to ponder God. Just some people enjoy it. So let them, ok? _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
threadbear wrote:
Jesus' purpose, the way I interpret the bible, was to reaffirm compassion and love, undermining the authority of the Old Testament. In so doing, he was reminding humanity that (no matter what their origin) we are all one, that we all live on after death (the Jews of his time didn't believe in an afterlife.), and that we are a part of a conscious universe and not subject to the constraints, laws, imposed on us by an alien culture.(old testament)
What you suggest above is very similar to the Gnostic interpretation of Christianity, in which YHWH was equated with the demiurg. Are you familiar with Gnosticism ?
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13065 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
greenworm wrote:
I believe one should be preparing right now instead of pondering God.
God won't help you when gas has run out. Self sufficiency will.
I think you could present that position more effectively if you didn't call people "idiots." Just a hint. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Quote:
But you do accept that one can't really disprove the existence of "God"
No, there is no God. As a phenomenologist one can only postulate on such matters that are presented to them. I have neither seen, felt, heard God. When I review ancient scripts that speak of Gods, I find they are usually based on celestial bodies. Yes, there are planets, but there are no Gods. There is no empirical evidence of a God only a belief system, an idea, I base my assumption on empirical evidence only. Heck, I have had many 'ideas' that were later proven false simply because no empirical evidence was found to support this idea.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4753 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
greenworm wrote:
Quote:
But you do accept that one can't really disprove the existence of "God"
No, there is no God. As a phenomenologist one can only postulate on such matters that are presented to them. I have neither seen, felt, heard God. When I review ancient scripts that speak of Gods, I find they are usually based on celestial bodies. Yes, there are planets, but there are no Gods. There is no empirical evidence of a God only a belief system, an idea, I base my assumption on empirical evidence only. Heck, I have had many 'ideas' that were later proven false simply because no empirical evidence was found to support this idea.
Correct, you will not see "the light" at the time of your death, only darkness. Cheers!
Maybe you will come back as a worm.................
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13065 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
greenworm wrote:
I base my assumption on empirical evidence only.
I'm glad you admit it is an "assumption."
I agree with much of what you say. I have had no experience of "God," to my knowledge. I won't take the leap to claim God "doesn't exist" just that I find gods unbelievable as a group. I like the idea of them, but that also does not make truth. I have plenty of goofy ideas which are important to me, but I think I would be rather foolish to claim they are the truth.
Do you believe all things of which you have no personal empirical knowledge also do not exist? _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Last edited by Ludi on Fri May 16, 2008 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Quote:
I'm glad you admit it is an "assumption."
I also assumed there was a God when I was young, however, the evidence was severely lacking. If you don't postulate one will never come to a conclusion.
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