How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
threadbear wrote:
Modern atheist epistemology is not a step up, an evolution in consciousness, it is simply the drive to reduce the universe to something that can be controlled.
And to reduce man (i.e. humans) to something which can be used and controlled without qualms of conscience.
Btu
Ah yes, using the lovely language and tools of behaviourism. Blecchhh
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
Threadbear, you were talking about human neoteny a while back and I'd ask you to expand.
I'm about to co-write an article for publication, within the next couple of months, so I'll link when it's published. I'll pm you with more details. I'd like someone to help ME expand on this, challenge what I come up with, and let me know if I'm indeed crazy as a rat trapped in a coffee tin. Interested?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Quote:
Greenworm - I like you and your honesty I really do. I suspect there is not a lukewarm bone in your body. About your comment on working on self sufficiency instead of focusing on God. I have worked my whole life and will most likely continue to do so until I die - That is part of life on this planet. The reason we focus on God is because some of us, even though we cannot prove him, have faith in him, which in turn gives us eternal hope. Just for arguments sake let's say we are wrong, are we going to have to continue to work ? Certainly, that willl not change. But let's just say for a second we continue our deluded way of thinking and die with the hope that we will see God and live in an eternal state of happiness and bliss (with no more work) for eternity ? Not a whole lot wrong with that is there ? We can even agree to disagree and I will come over and help you harvest some bat guano so you can make through another planting season !
Thank you for your honesty, if you are ever in need of some survival skills, I can get you started, just pm me. And if you ever decide to harvest some bat guano yourself, wear a mask. No seriously wear a mask, you can catch respiratory disease called histoplasmosis. Good luck to you.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
threadbear wrote:
btu2012 wrote:
Threadbear, you were talking about human neoteny a while back and I'd ask you to expand.
I'm about to co-write an article for publication, within the next couple of months, so I'll link when it's published. I'll pm you with more details. I'd like someone to help ME expand on this, challenge what I come up with, and let me know if I'm indeed crazy as a rat trapped in a coffee tin. Interested?
yes, if you are willing to share your ideas. However remember that I am a physicist and not a biologist. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
threadbear wrote:
btu2012 wrote:
Threadbear, you were talking about human neoteny a while back and I'd ask you to expand.
I'm about to co-write an article for publication, within the next couple of months, so I'll link when it's published. I'll pm you with more details. I'd like someone to help ME expand on this, challenge what I come up with, and let me know if I'm indeed crazy as a rat trapped in a coffee tin. Interested?
yes, if you are willing to share. However remember that I am a physicist and not a biologist.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4037 Location: Pacific Northwest
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
greenworm wrote:
Quote:
Do you see the tyranny in your approach? Do you see the narrowmindedness of presuming that what is true in your eyes MUST be true in everyone's eyes?
No. Have you heard, seen, or touched God? No you haven't, these monks haven't either, not narrow minded, just Fark reasonable.
There is no evidence, the monks can't provide it.
You call me narrowminded, that is okay, I put you in the straight jacket crowd.
God ranks right up there with the spaghetti monster, do you believe in him too?
Why does it trouble you so much that someone else believes in God? So what if it's irrational? If it provides wholeness to life, and it works for people who believe it, why do you care?
I think you took the narrowminded comment the wrong way. I meant it literally--you seemed to be looking at the matter in a narrow way. _________________
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Furthermore the atheist position is as susceptible to skepticism as the theist position, so it isn't actually rational to adopt atheism over theism.
It's just a belief.
By the way, claiming that the test of existence is whether something can be seen, heard or touched is pathetic.
People hear, touch and see many things which don't exist (delusions) and there are many things which exist which we cannot hear, see or touch.
Did Greenworm hear, see or touch any of the following:
1. An electron, neutrino, quark or gluon ?
2. A concept ?
3. An abstract mathematical object, such as an (ideal) triangle, a hypercube (cube in more than 3 dimensions), a measure, a group or a Dedekind domain ? A manifold or algebraic variety with more than 3 dimensions ?
Btu _________________ only the paranoid survive
Last edited by btu2012 on Fri May 16, 2008 8:02 pm; edited 5 times in total
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4037 Location: Pacific Northwest
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Ludi wrote:
POAlex wrote:
1) That coffee in the middle of the table was put there by nobody.
2) The person writing this put the coffee in the middle of the table but I've left the room for a few minutes.
Why are those the only two choices?
I think the question of the "First Cause" is an interesting one and there is really no satisfactory explanation that doesn't involve a God-like force or entity. _________________
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
BigTex wrote:
I think the question of the "First Cause" is an interesting one and there is really no satisfactory explanation that doesn't involve a God-like force or entity.
Or some modification/abolition of strict causality. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4037 Location: Pacific Northwest
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
BigTex wrote:
I think the question of the "First Cause" is an interesting one and there is really no satisfactory explanation that doesn't involve a God-like force or entity.
Or some modification/abolition of strict causality.
I'm not sure what that means exactly (I'm sure you will share), but I assume it means that it is far easier to accept "B" spontaneously erupting from "A" than "A" spontaneously erupting from nothing. _________________
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No seriously wear a mask, you can catch respiratory disease called histoplasmosis. Good luck to you.
