I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
Drifter wrote:
I expect an even bigger jump in gasoline prices, because it will have to catch up with oil prices sooner or later.
When I mention this to people in conversation about the oil issue, they look at me like I'm from another planet. They just can't imagine that they are not already being maximally gouged at the pumps. And, of course, the oil companies are to blame for it all.
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 1649 Location: Springsteen Country (NJ)
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
drgoodword wrote:
When I mention this to people in conversation about the oil issue, they look at me like I'm from another planet. They just can't imagine that they are not already being maximally gouged at the pumps. And, of course, the oil companies are to blame for it all.
Exactly the reaction I get. The sheeple aren't waking up. They're still in the dream world of infinite resources at cheap prices. They're not waking up because their rulers are keeping them asleep with alternate explanations rather than letting them in on the truth that oil supply is stagnant and could start to drop at any time.
After all, if the people actually believed they were about to lose their cushy lifestyles, they might stop consuming and start preparing, or worse, riot in the streets and march on the rulers' seats of power.
The sheeple will be kept asleep just as long as possible. _________________ Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3623 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
Drifter, man, why didn't you excerpt this little nugget:
Quote:
U.S. drivers haven't radically changed their behavior, and it is unclear at what price it becomes unprofitable for Americans to go about their usual day-to-day activities, said Eric DeGesero, executive vice president of the Fuel Merchants Association of New Jersey.
"Maybe at $6 or $7 a gallon, it becomes less attractive to go to work," Mr. DeGesero said. "We haven't hit that point yet, but we might soon."
I read in the NYT that consumer confidence is at its lowest point since 1980. I detect a certain malaise! _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
C'mon man, who're you gonna believe?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
Hasn't gasoline become just a byproduct of diesel production? The world needs diesel to run trucks, pumps, industry, and especially to build new cities in China and India etc. That suggests that diesel prices will come down before gasoline will go up. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2880 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
The fools at WSJ doesn't appear to know that futures have no predicitive power. They are just bets. You might just as well divine gasoline prices from betting on horse races.
If you look at how the 6 month futures have behaved, you'll notice that they have always been trading at around $20 a barrel until the invasion of Iraq since when they have followed the oil price upwards.
Just look at what 6 month futures were trading for 6 months ago. $130 a barrel? Hardly. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6547 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
alokin wrote:
I just read in "der Spiegel" that $4 a Gallon of petrol is about 0.7 EUR a liter - Isn't this ridiculously cheap?
Not cheap in the US. Almost the entire country was engineered and built around cheap gasoline. Without it we disintegrate.
The efforts to adjust so far are laughable. For example, on the PBS "News Hour" last night they had a segment on gasoline prices, and the analysis concluded that the problem is mainly psychological. TOTALLY CLUELESS. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
Heineken wrote:
alokin wrote:
I just read in "der Spiegel" that $4 a Gallon of petrol is about 0.7 EUR a liter - Isn't this ridiculously cheap?
Not cheap in the US. Almost the entire country was engineered and built around cheap gasoline. Without it we disintegrate.
The efforts to adjust so far are laughable. For example, on the PBS "News Hour" last night they had a segment on gasoline prices, and the analysis concluded that the problem is mainly psychological. TOTALLY CLUELESS.
Much of our fuel use is not elastic. We have long commutes, oversized vehicles, and especially giant homes situated without regard for climate, solar orientation, prevailing winds, neighbors, municipal services, transport hubs, and community.
You can buy a Prius or ride a bike and save a few percent energy but your other 120 energy slaves are still working full time. Monsterous earthmoving equipment digging rock phosphate for fertilizer and ore for tin cans. Giant industrial systems knocking out food cartons, flimsy plastic bags, sneakers, undewear, 100-car coal trains running morning, noon, and night. Entire cities lit for security and navigation. THIS STUFF CAN NOT BE TURNED OFF. We are so f*cked in so many ways. YIKES _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4753 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
pstarr wrote:
Heineken wrote:
alokin wrote:
I just read in "der Spiegel" that $4 a Gallon of petrol is about 0.7 EUR a liter - Isn't this ridiculously cheap?
Not cheap in the US. Almost the entire country was engineered and built around cheap gasoline. Without it we disintegrate.
The efforts to adjust so far are laughable. For example, on the PBS "News Hour" last night they had a segment on gasoline prices, and the analysis concluded that the problem is mainly psychological. TOTALLY CLUELESS.
Much of our fuel use is not elastic. We have long commutes, oversized vehicles, and especially giant homes situated without regard for climate, solar orientation, prevailing winds, neighbors, municipal services, transport hubs, and community.
You can buy a Prius or ride a bike and save a few percent energy but your other 120 energy slaves are still working full time. Monsterous earthmoving equipment digging rock phosphate for fertilizer and ore for tin cans. Giant industrial systems knocking out food cartons, flimsy plastic bags, sneakers, undewear, 100-car coal trains running morning, noon, and night. Entire cities lit for security and navigation. THIS STUFF CAN NOT BE TURNED OFF. We are so f*cked in so many ways. YIKES
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
IMO they are testing and marketing some doom and gloom on the public to see how they respond and prepare them eventually for what will happen. _________________ Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destory health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality.
Joined: Apr 04, 2005 Posts: 473 Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
Heineken wrote:
alokin wrote:
I just read in "der Spiegel" that $4 a Gallon of petrol is about 0.7 EUR a liter - Isn't this ridiculously cheap?
Not cheap in the US. Almost the entire country was engineered and built around cheap gasoline. Without it we disintegrate.
The efforts to adjust so far are laughable. For example, on the PBS "News Hour" last night they had a segment on gasoline prices, and the analysis concluded that the problem is mainly psychological. TOTALLY CLUELESS.
I agree with others (joewp?? pstarr??): the media wants to keep the mass uninformed. That's the point. Once the people wake up, the people stop buying. When that happens the economy changes. They need to keep the party going as long as they can.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3623 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
Heineken wrote:
The efforts to adjust so far are laughable. For example, on the PBS "News Hour" last night they had a segment on gasoline prices, and the analysis concluded that the problem is mainly psychological. TOTALLY CLUELESS.
_________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
C'mon man, who're you gonna believe?
Joined: Sep 12, 2005 Posts: 289 Location: Victoria, Australia
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Wall Street Journal: If $4 Gas Is Bad, Just Wait
Drifter wrote:
I guess that's what bothers me most on this board. No offense, but a lot of Europeans posting here seem to be clueless about the large size of the US, the infrastructure system, and how utterly dependent Americans are on their cars. Hell, just the size of California state is larger than some European countries. What I am trying to say is YES, $4+ gasoline will be detrimental to the American system and infrastructure. The entire US infrastructure system was built around the availability of cheap gasoline and oil. That is why many of the posters here are more negative about their peak oil outlook. They understand that the US and it's infrastructure is just too large for any other technology besides cheap oil.
-America's rail system is practically non-existent.
-America's public transportation system is practically non-existent.
-Almost the entire US is held together by the trucking system. America's vast highway and road system requires massive amounts of energy to build and maintain.
-The average vegetable is transported over 1500 miles by truck. NOT grown locally. In may cases CANNOT be grown locally.
Yes, Europe and North America have very different sizes and infrastructures.
In Australia we are currently paying $1.60 per litre.
Our country is big too. Our suburbs are spread out and we have little public transport. Our system is totally dependant on trucking just like the US. We have a vast highway system.
We are still surviving. We have not suffered a complete break down of society (although it sometimes seems like it with youth gangs and stabbings etc.)
America will absorg $6.00 fuel just like we have. Sure people will cut back in many ways and will bitch like hell, but they will absorb it and they will survive. Now I don't know about $10 or $20 fuel. There will be a breaking point, but I'm sure that $6 isn't it. I know 'cause I'm living it.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
