Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1126 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Israel Says Iran Will Be Destroyed If Attacked
abelardlindsay wrote:
The Arabs would like to eliminate Israel, but they can't figure out how to do it. All the talking and diplomacy for the past 50 years might have well never have happened. The situation would have remained the same.
What would you be doing if the Mexicans who've been slowly moving back into California since you took it from them in 1848 finally made THEIR annexation official, I wonder? Applauding their triumphal return as they bulldoze your great grandfather's farm?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1126 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Israel Says Iran Will Be Destroyed If Attacked
BigTex wrote:
I don't read "vanish from the page of time" a lot differently than "wipe off the map."
Why, because it doesn't suit your preconceptions to? What happened to the Apartheid regime in South Africa? It wasn't "wiped off the map"; we didn't send in the troops in our righteous anger, killing the evil white South Africans (and no doubt millions of innocent black South African "collateral damages" at the same stroke)... No, we applied constant pressure on every front to aid in the transition to a land that was just to all its people. In this manner, the Apartheid regime "vanished from the page of time".
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 1855 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Israel Says Iran Will Be Destroyed If Attacked
What is important is that the Iranian President did NOT make any statement that clearly can be interpretated as a threat to destroy Israel through military force although media many times tried to make it sound like that was the case.
If the translation of Israels message regarding Destroying Iran is correct, this sounds heck of a lot more like a military threat. _________________ Lets take a ride, and run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
You cant hide, run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
- Pet Shop Boys
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1126 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Israel Says Iran Will Be Destroyed If Attacked
toast wrote:
Why are you arguing semantic. What's wrong with obliterating Israel off the map. Israel has forgotten their God.
I think there's an issue with blowing anyone off the map. These aren't abstracts; we're talking about millions and millions of people in either case. There are serious disagreements, but things can be worked out. As it is, the place is just a festering sore.
I'll say it. In my opinion, for several million Jews to decide to force their way into a settled land on the basis of an old book was not the smartest thing in the world. Germany predicated the Holocaust, not Palestine -- why wasn't Germany required to cede a portion of its territory to create a Jewish homeland? The guilt of Germans in particular and Europeans in general would have the guarantor of Jewish freedom and prosperity for centuries to come. As it is, the Arabs have no such compunctions. Better choices could have been made in the 1940s, and that vast store of European guilt could have been spent more wisely, because it's on the verge of running out about now, especially given the way Israel is behaving. "Never again" should mean everyone, not just them.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3715 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Israel Says Iran Will Be Destroyed If Attacked
Nickel wrote:
abelardlindsay wrote:
The Arabs would like to eliminate Israel, but they can't figure out how to do it. All the talking and diplomacy for the past 50 years might have well never have happened. The situation would have remained the same.
What would you be doing if the Mexicans who've been slowly moving back into California since you took it from them in 1848 finally made THEIR annexation official, I wonder? Applauding their triumphal return as they bulldoze your great grandfather's farm?
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3715 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Israel Says Iran Will Be Destroyed If Attacked
Nickel wrote:
I'll say it. In my opinion, for several million Jews to decide to force their way into a settled land on the basis of an old book was not the smartest thing in the world.
The moral hypocrisy in this argument is off the scale.
Why couldn't the palestinians accept a pluralistic society in Israel that would allow a one-state solution right off the bat? Why do they want the "right of return" when they didn't like the idea of diaspora Jews returning back to their ancestral homeland to begin with? Iran's rhetoric makes it seem as though the idea of muslims having to tolerate coexisting with an influx of Jewish settlers living in their midst as "punishment". This is a morally defensible argument?
The bottom line is that both sides don't really want to share the country. The jews want Israel to be a jewish state out of fear that they will be abused in a one state solution with muslims in a demographic majority. The muslims don't want any jews in the country, period, let alone for them to have any rights. They don't even want jews praying at the temple mount, or to perform any repairs on it.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1126 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Israel Says Iran Will Be Destroyed If Attacked
mos6507 wrote:
Why couldn't the palestinians accept a pluralistic society in Israel that would allow a one-state solution right off the bat?
Suppose some guy with an Uzi annexes your living room this evening, claiming it used to be part of his grandfather's farm. What's your next move? Figure out how to share the bathroom? Honestly, I'd like to hear this.
mos6507 wrote:
Why do they want the "right of return" when they didn't like the idea of diaspora Jews returning back to their ancestral homeland to begin with?
You wanna compare notes on hypocrisy, do you? The right of return they're talking about involves people who are, for the most part, still alive, or their children. You're talking about the right of return for people who died around the time Pompeii was destroyed in the eruption of Vesuvius. Which really carries more weight, honestly? Cripes, I have a better claim to just about any land I want in Scotland... but wish me luck just showing up and grabbing what I please.
mos6507 wrote:
Iran's rhetoric makes it seem as though the idea of muslims having to tolerate coexisting with an influx of Jewish settlers living in their midst as "punishment". This is a morally defensible argument?
Given that the Palestinians didn't commit the Holocaust, it's at least an understandable point of view. Shouldn't it be guys in Bavaria who get shoved off the farms that have been in their families for hundreds of years? Seems a more defensible argument to me.
mos6507 wrote:
The muslims don't want any jews in the country, period, let alone for them to have any rights.
Jews lived in Palestine for thousands of years amongst the Arabs, who are, after all, fellow Semites. It was showing up in numbers and moving other people out that was, and is, objectionable, frankly.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Israel Says Iran Will Be Destroyed If Attacked
I have heard that Ahmedinajad (?) believes that in the course of time, Israel wil cease to exist as it is God's will. Not that he wants to see this happen now or by violence, but that is the fate of Israel and is ordained such for some reaons or another.
Apparently, he has even clarified this with the United States, that he does not see as his objective to destroy Israel but he seems to gain no respect for thsi passivity.
So, its still creepy. But, don't even Christians believe that?
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Israel Says Iran Will Be Destroyed If Attacked
mos6507, you know better then to confuse the practice of the Jewish religion with a Godless secular Israel. The State of Israel is no friend to the Jewish people.
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