I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1723 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: South America forms South American Union
South America is thinking of creating a common currency and a central bank along the lines of those in the European Union's euro-zone, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Monday.
The idea is a logical next step following the signing last Friday of a treaty creating a Union of South American States that aims to promote joint regional customs and defense policies, Lula said during his weekly radio broadcast.
Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela all signed up to the UNASUR treaty creating the regional union during a ceremony in Brasilia last Friday.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
Should be a wake up call to many on the site who holler conspiracy theory when they hear of the concept of a north american union. _________________ Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destory health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
mmasters wrote:
Should be a wake up call to many on the site who holler conspiracy theory when they hear of the concept of a north american union.
Yes, and it will also irritate those in the Bush Administration who would want to see Chavez swinging from a rope. It will be harder and harder to fund operations down there if they are all cozying up and playing mini-me with the EU. The difficulty is that most of the governments are leftist in a way that makes Neocons very uneasy. They have been moving quickly though since 2005.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
Cid_Yama wrote:
South America is thinking of creating a common currency and a central bank along the lines of those in the European Union's euro-zone, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Monday.
The idea is a logical next step following the signing last Friday of a treaty creating a Union of South American States that aims to promote joint regional customs and defense policies, Lula said during his weekly radio broadcast.
Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela all signed up to the UNASUR treaty creating the regional union during a ceremony in Brasilia last Friday.
So tell me Cid. How does this relate to Chavez and his leftist ambitions? Are we going to see Hugo Chavez President for life of a South American Union, or will entering the Union sideline him, or simply show everyone that he is not the big bad dictator we all feared?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
mmasters wrote:
Should be a wake up call to many on the site who holler conspiracy theory when they hear of the concept of a north american union.
The situation here's a little different. In Europe and South America, the nations involved are much more like peers. In North America, Canada's small population is an issue, as is Mexico's ability to subvert the wage structures of Anglo-America to the detriment of our standard of living.
...That animal in your avatar's not DEAD, is it? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1723 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
Colombia has already marginalized themselves by opting out of the mutual defense pact. To be expected, as Colombia is a US foothold in South America and the Union was formed, in part, as resistance to multi-national corporate colonialism. This puts the Union ideologically opposed to the United States. Expect "21st Century Socialism" to be a growing influence throughout South America as well as the Caribbean and Central America who have been encouraged to join and whose interests are more aligned with the South than the North.
The temporary president of UNASUR, Chilean President Michelle Bachelet, said the new grouping will help the region “contribute to the construction of this new 21st century, where Latin America is capable of having a strong and firm voice because we have been able to initiate a process of effective integration.”
Bachelet highlighted the potential for UNASUR to promote economic and social development in the region. At the top of the organization’s agenda should be combating poverty, eradicating illiteracy, and coordinating university programs so as to facilitate the movement of professionals throughout the region, she said. Also being contemplated is a regional citizenship.
Lula assured that UNASUR is open to other Latin American countries.
Time to revive the Domino Theory. This time it's not Communism but Socialism, and in my opinion, a good thing. Throw out the elitist exploiters and let compassion rule.
This has grown beyond individual leaders. A Chavez or a Morales may be assasinated or overthrown in a coup, but it is impossible to kill an idea whose time has come. _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
Peleg wrote:
So tell me Cid. How does this relate to Chavez and his leftist ambitions? Are we going to see Hugo Chavez President for life of a South American Union, or will entering the Union sideline him, or simply show everyone that he is not the big bad dictator we all feared?
Chavez has been the most energetic leader pushing for this union. It has been his pipe dream for some time.
We can see some of the early stages of this in projects such as the pan-continental Telesur (as a rival to CNN), for which Venezuela provides the largest portion of funding.
Also the recent debacle with Colombia and Ecuador showed how integrated the countries were becoming. It lead to a kind of pan-continental outrage against Colombia, spearheaded by Chavez.
The Union is necessarily a bit leftist because it necessarily operates in the context of years of division by conquest and interference by the western world, which was easy while the continent was divided.
As a united continent, individual countries will be freer to determine their own course, and will hopefully move towards addressing the social problems that have plagued the region.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4401 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
Peleg wrote:
So tell me Cid. How does this relate to Chavez and his leftist ambitions? Are we going to see Hugo Chavez President for life of a South American Union, or will entering the Union sideline him, or simply show everyone that he is not the big bad dictator we all feared?
I'm sure whatever Chavez does, Cid will find a way to make it seem like a good thing, even if only because it frustrates the US.
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 375 Location: In freefall speed right down to the claws of the devil
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
Quote:
This time it's not Communism but Socialism, and in my opinion, a good thing. Throw out the elitist exploiters and let compassion rule.
This has grown beyond individual leaders. A Chavez or a Morales may be assasinated or overthrown in a coup, but it is impossible to kill an idea whose time has come.
Forgive me ..... please, but, are you THAT full of shhheesh, ehh?
Where do you get all those ideas of greatness, leadership and popularity about hugo, for instance, when ACTUALLY, the poor guy, whenever has an outdoors ..... or indoors meeting, there are MORE frigging buses carrying in/out with his "audience" than actual people listening to him ...... that the poor guy has to FORCE public employees to said verboreics sessions even SOLDIERS are given street clothing to fill up seats or empty spaces!
To illustrate you a little better, the area next to those lines of busses is "Tiuna Fort", the capacity ought to be some 30-40k people and the surroundings is a denselly populated area, named "el Valle", where close to one Million persons, mostly poors and lower to medium layers, inhabit in there.
A ten minutes walk would do enough to bring voluntaries to the meeting.
However, the "popular" hugo NEEDS to bus people in, from the WHOLE damned country, just to make it seeminly up ......
Come on dude, you would be SURPRISED the actual low number of people behind him and/or his "personal" project, and the nice´n easy he´s making the bed up for bushco, eventually, so, do yourself a little favor, and please, .....wake UP!
mos6507:
Quote:
....... even if only because it frustrates the US.
¿frustates?
The ONLY single thing that will FRUSTATE that country up is when it sees NO ships, from either Venezuelan or Cuban ports, carrying up their oil to the gulf of Mexico. ...... and THAT ain´t gonna happen, as of now.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
pana_burda wrote:
Where do you get all those ideas of greatness, leadership and popularity about hugo, for instance, when ACTUALLY, the poor guy, whenever has an outdoors ..... or indoors meeting, there are MORE frigging buses carrying in/out with his "audience" than actual people listening to him ...... that the poor guy has to FORCE public employees to said verboreics sessions even SOLDIERS are given street clothing to fill up seats or empty spaces!
Oh, and I heard he secretly buses in the entire population of Bolivia in the middle of the night whenever there's an election. See, ¡that's how he keeps winning! Sneaky bugger, ¿don't you think? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
I for one welcome a competing ideology of socialism vs. capitalism, rather than Fundy Christian Zionist+Israeli Zionist vs. Fundy Muslim Extremist.
I liked it better when we were competing with Russia. Then we were actually competing over something that mattered(economics) rather than simply what someone believed. I don't care if you worship Allah or Yahweh or Billy the goat. I do care if you try and steal my money, in order to give it to some multi-billionaire and try and say it's "good economics".
Hopefully, with a growing power of a socialist South, it will terrify the Upper Class in the United States.
Furthermore, the Upper Class may not be so interested in keeping all those illegal aliens, as they might find they are a liability as they have more in common with their Southern brothers, than their rich white overlords.
This may create fear of a possible overthrow of the government, which may cause the government to be more interested in providing aid to the poor of the U.S in order to stem anger towards the ruling class.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1723 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
Actually it will make them more interested in building more detention camps and violating further the constitutional rights of the citizens of the United States.
It's time to take these people down before we find ourselves living in a country, more than fascist, oppression like has never been seen, facilitated by technology that has never existed before.
I'll die fighting before they tag me. _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2500 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
pana_burda wrote:
However, the "popular" hugo NEEDS to bus people in, from the WHOLE damned country, just to make it seeminly up ......
If he's not so popular then how come he's been elected, re-elected, reinstalled to power following a counter coup and won a vote of confidence in a national referendum.
I think a socialist South American Union would be a great idea. _________________ "The age of excess is over. The age of entropy has begun"
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: Re: South America forms South American Union
stu wrote:
pana_burda wrote:
However, the "popular" hugo NEEDS to bus people in, from the WHOLE damned country, just to make it seeminly up ......
If he's not so popular then how come he's been elected, re-elected, reinstalled to power following a counter coup and won a vote of confidence in a national referendum.
Oh, I've tried this line with him. He just steamrolls over it. He's not about facing the truth or logic of the situation, just about his agenda. He's probably just like those monied clowns who've been living in Miami for 50 years, claiming to be better Cubans than the ones who live there, and to know what's best for the place they had to flee because they'd been sucking its blood since the Spanish left. Never mind he keeps winning elections, won a recall, faced down a coup because of popular support, lost a referendum and bowed to the outcome, no... no, he's a fake and he has to stuff buses to get people to listen to him. Yeah, uh huh. This is "reality" for Pana when he lights up a $50 and smokes it. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
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