Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Remember, this is quantum mechanics and has nothing to do with getting anything closer to anything else, you just have to have the an overlap of wavefunctions, this is acheived by forming the bose-einstein condensate. This paper is pretty cool, I'm going to have to read it more closely.
Another interesting paper discusses the consumption of the palladium electrodes, http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/IwamuraYelementalaa.pdf , for they are transmuted into cesium. How much palladium is on the planet? There still appears to be a limit on how much energy we can make...
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: Re: "Cold Fusion" Demonstration
oxj wrote:
Remember, this is quantum mechanics and has nothing to do with getting anything closer to anything else, you just have to have the an overlap of wavefunctions, this is acheived by forming the bose-einstein condensate. This paper is pretty cool, I'm going to have to read it more closely.
I have red this paper and I have found presented explanations to be interesting.
Nevertheless from what I have learned in the past Einstein-Bose condensates can be obtained only at ultralow temperatures, close to absolute zero.
It is not clear for me, why such entities should form at ambient temperature in the presence of palladium perhaps.
If they really do, then one should expect for fusion rate to grow with fall of temperature and as well fusion should cease with sufficient temperature growth.
That could be experimentally tested without difficulty.
It would also provide for good self regulation of the process and prevent runaway reactions.
On the other hand such situation could well render our cold fusion entirely useless phenomenon from perspective of energy production.
There is not much you can do to generate electricity out of pool of heavy water (D2O) warmed up to 40 or 60*C after all.
Some solid state setup warmed to 50*C would not be good to produce electricity either albeit It could provide warm water for example.
Quote:
How much palladium is on the planet? There still appears to be a limit on how much energy we can make...
Palladium is one of major products of fission of uranium.
Quote:
Maybe it would be wise to buy palladium now?
I don't think so, still.
I do not expect mentioned process to be able to produce enough density of energy to permit application in electricity production on commercial scale.
But who knows?
Maybe permanently warm swimming pool somewhere will be made?
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: "Cold Fusion" Demonstration
Sys1 wrote:
As peak oil violently hits industrial civilization, politics and public will ask scientists to do "something" quick.
Emergency! Mankind needs a scientific hero!
We had that over fifty years ago with the first reactor. Fission does well enough to supply global energy needs for several million years. One might imagine we'll manage to utilize solar power or figure out fusion sometime by then.
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: "Cold Fusion" Demonstration
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
If they really do, then one should expect for fusion rate to grow with fall of temperature and as well fusion should cease with sufficient temperature growth.
That could be experimentally tested without difficulty.
It would also provide for good self regulation of the process and prevent runaway reactions.
On the other hand such situation could well render our cold fusion entirely useless phenomenon from perspective of energy production.
While I think most non thermonuclear fusion avenues are dead ends, its possible to imagine very cold fusion devices that yield energy production (particularly pyconuclear fusion) if one has interactions where nearly all the energy yield is in the neutron. Energy utilization is done by a blanket which captures the energy.
I don't think for a second that nature will give us such a reaction however.
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: "Cold Fusion" Demonstration
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
I agree that cold fusion would not be in breach of thermodynamics, those who think so are misguided, however I cannot imagine any sensible mechanism allowing fusing nuclei to get close enough to each other to permit fusion under such setup, tunneling or no tunneling, doesn't matter. Coulomb force cannot be suspended somehow after all and you have to get nuclei close enough for strong force to overrule repulsion due to Coulomb force.
You are right, I agree with you, it doesn't make sense. Somehow the nuclei are getting close enough together to fuse and the only way we've seen that happening is under pressure high enough to overcome electrostatic repulsion. Somehow, natural forces are spontaneously created or destroyed and that violates the laws of thermodynamics. So why am I misguided? _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: Re: "Cold Fusion" Demonstration
Kingcoal wrote:
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
I agree that cold fusion would not be in breach of thermodynamics, those who think so are misguided, however I cannot imagine any sensible mechanism allowing fusing nuclei to get close enough to each other to permit fusion under such setup, tunneling or no tunneling, doesn't matter. Coulomb force cannot be suspended somehow after all and you have to get nuclei close enough for strong force to overrule repulsion due to Coulomb force.
You are right, I agree with you, it doesn't make sense. Somehow the nuclei are getting close enough together to fuse and the only way we've seen that happening is under pressure high enough to overcome electrostatic repulsion. Somehow, natural forces are spontaneously created or destroyed and that violates the laws of thermodynamics. So why am I misguided?
You are misguided in respect of violation of thermodynamics.
Presumption that violation of various laws of physics is equivalent of violation of thermodynamics is false.
Thermodynamics is not violated in fusion or cold fusion experiments.
To violate thermodynamics, you would either have to claim that:
1. Energy was created or destroyed or:
2. That entropy of isolated classical system was lowered for example to deliver energy gains.
So for example claim that energy appeared out of nowhere or that it just vanished would violate 1.
Essentially it kills hope for all free energy devices like setups of power generating perpetually rotating permanent magnets, which never lose their magnetic field in the process.
On the other hand attempts to harness energy from isolated system of given temperature, by allowing temperature to fall in absence of another cooler system would violate 2.
Eg. for heat engine to work there must be a temperature difference between cooling and heating section.
Cold fusion is not in violation of above, so it is not in violation of thermodynamics.
Problem with cold fusion is that probability of fusion event at ambient conditions should be incredibly low, as dictated by considerations regarding Coulomb force, perhaps ~40 orders of magnitude lower than rate of reaction claimed now by cold fusion researchers.
They try to explain it recently by various quantum effects, which could drastically increase speed of process.
Suggested quantum effects would not destroy or create excessive Coulomb force nor would they change its direction (eg. make it attracting, not repulsive for deuterium nuclei).
Their work would rely on "spreading" of electric charge of nuclei due to nonlocal nature of wave function representing them, which could result in relatively high rate of fusion, regardless of Coulomb force.
I am still very skeptical about suggested mechanism actually operating, but further experiments will surely reveal a truth.
No further news means bad news.
Guys misinterpreted something and gone shy and quiet.
This is usual fate of cold fusion experiments.
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: Re: "Cold Fusion" Demonstration
Japan's Sputnik? The Arata-Zhang Osaka University LENR Demonstration
By Steven B. Krivit
Year after year, New Energy Times readers have asked us, "When will we finally see something demonstrable, a light bulb or a motor running from a LENR experiment?"
Perhaps the wait is over.
On May 22, professor emeritus Yoshiaki Arata (Osaka University) and professor Yue Chang Zhang (Shianghai Jiotong University) did it. With the flick of a finger to start the Stirling engine, they saw the heat from their LENR experiment—with no applied electrical energy—turn a small rotor for many minutes. The presumption is that the motor was turning during the nuclear energy production phase rather than the chemical energy production phase.
Arata is a highly respected physicist in Japan who has been the recipient of Japan's highest award, the Order of Cultural Merit, and is the first person to have performed a thermonuclear fusion experiment showing large amounts of deuterium-deuterium reactions in Japan.
However, after more than half a century, thermonuclear fusion research has yet to produce a single experiment that demonstrates any energy release beyond that which it consumes.
Arata and Zhang are not the first to perform a live public demonstration of LENR excess heat, a possible new source of clean nuclear energy, but they are the first to display publicly a LENR application that is visible.
The demonstration took place on Arata's 85th birthday at the Osaka University Advanced Science and Innovation Center. A lecture by Arata at Arata Hall of the Joining and Welding Research Institute (named his honor) on the Suita campus of Osaka University preceded the demonstration, and a question-and-answer session followed the demo.
Norio Yabuuchi, of the High Scientific Research Laboratory of Tsu City, Mie, Japan, provided New Energy Times with a video recording of the public demonstration.
Professor Akito Takahashi of Osaka University witnessed the demonstration. Takahashi wrote that 60 people from universities and companies in Japan and a few people from other countries attended, as well as representatives from six major newspapers and two television stations. Some of the international print media coverage is listed in a separate item in this issue of New Energy Times under "International News Coverage of 2008 Arata-Zhang Demonstration."
Jed Rothwell, librarian of the LENR-CANR.org Web site, was, according to Takahashi, the only American present at the lecture and demonstration.
"The high operating temperature, instant response and reliability of this device make it the most practical form of LENR yet developed," Rothwell wrote. "The small amount of palladium is also a major advantage. As far as I know, all of the tests with Zr-Pd targets and D2 have produced heat immediately and predictably. It may not be possible to turn off the reaction instantly, but this is no impediment to practical applications; it is not possible to turn off the heat from burning coal or uranium fission, either."
Evidence for the claim of a nuclear reaction came from the quadrupole mass spectrometry measurements of helium produced by the experiment. According to Arata, no helium was present in any of the materials before the experiment, and no helium was introduced from the atmosphere.
Arata states that no input energy is required for the experiment, aside from the energy required to create the initial vacuum and gas pressure and to bake the powder to remove impurities.
In an earlier conversation with New Energy Times, Arata offered his perspective on LENR research.
"Some people say we have reached the end of science, that there are no more great discoveries that remain. In my view, nature always has more secrets to reveal," Arata wrote. "I always stay on guard not to be too possessed by my own current knowledge. History has shown us repeatedly, for example, the foolishness of denying 'heliocentricism,' which resulted from individuals adhering too strongly to their own knowledge or to what was common sense in the past."
Joined: Oct 14, 2004 Posts: 1203 Location: Left the cult
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: "Cold Fusion" Demonstration
Kingcoal wrote:
You are right, I agree with you, it doesn't make sense. Somehow the nuclei are getting close enough together to fuse and the only way we've seen that happening is under pressure high enough to overcome electrostatic repulsion. Somehow, natural forces are spontaneously created or destroyed and that violates the laws of thermodynamics. So why am I misguided?
Misguided, because you're talking nonsense. Fusion does not rely on high pressure, ITER will have a max plasma pressure of about 5 atmospheres. _________________ It's all downhill from here
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: "Cold Fusion" Demonstration
gnm wrote:
RIP Robert Bussard.
I see that research continues on the polywell design.
-G
This one is where I really really really hope it works, it would be quadzillion times better than even cold fusion. If this one would really work as intended and expected by him it would pretty much catapult us into type1 civilization territory, especially if it would scale up to p-B11. It's a highly philosophical question if this would actually be a good thing or if it would just offer us the possibility to find another way to screw ourselves, but I haven't given up on us yet.
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: Re: "Cold Fusion" Demonstration
Sys1 wrote:
As peak oil violently hits industrial civilization, politics and public will ask scientists to do "something" quick.
Emergency! Mankind needs a scientific hero!
That's what got us in the mess in the first place, isn't it? The idea that technology will always safe our ass, no matter what.
in the process we seem to have destroyed large parts of our base of existance (agricultur / Green Revolution).
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