Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 23 Location: Scandinavia
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
I live in Finland at the moment and odds are rather good for this country. Low population and density, good infrastructure, technologically developed, lots of forrests, arable land and more than enough fresh water. I guess the same goes for Sweden and possibly Norway. One bad side however, Finland is directly geographically connected to Russia.
But the only thing I'm personally concerned about right now is the military, we have compulsory drafting and I'm of that age, three years over it actually. I love my country but I wouldn't say I'm a nationalist and I certainly have no interest in fighting any stupid (resource) wars.
I am concidering moving somewhere else if conditions require it, and I see no problem with establishing myself in the community wherever that may be. For people with normal or good social skills it doesn't take decades or generations to do that, heck it might not even take a year. Socially awkward people on the other hand have bigger problems.
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
I don't plan to leave Spain, there is a lot of land and little towns here, even old agrarian towns that had been abandoned and can be rebuilt. Also, I agree whit those who say that in a PO situation, the best country to live is yours. In bad times, foreigners are not welcome anywhere.
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
taizy8 wrote:
I agree that the best place to be is among your own...as close to a familiar community as possible......though sometimes familiarity breeds contempt.
If things get really bad I can see mass migration over large parts of the world.
1. There are all those people who live in unpromising parts of a country (big cities perhaps) and will relocate internally.
2. All those who have the right to live and work in another country (including all citizens of the EU) may consider relocating.
3. All those temporarily working or residing in another country may feel, as Taizy does, they want to return home to be close to a familiar community. (Also - if there are food shortages I imagine that life could become difficult for those with a questionable residential status.)
4. Not to mention people prepared to risk illegal immigration to increase the chances of their own survival and that of their family.
I have been studying what the effects of PO might be in the UK (region by region) and I estimate that more than half of Greater London could potentially leave the country plus more relocating within the UK. This might be a good thing as all other regions except the England’s South East have potential for sustainability. Hopefully some international trade will still exist.
Joined: Mar 09, 2006 Posts: 554 Location: Al-Mariyya, Al-Andalus
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
energycity wrote:
Quote:
more than half of Greater London could potentially leave the country
You have to be right. Surely more than half of greater London are from Poland, Ukrain and Rumania, among other nationalities. When visiting London, it is difficult to come across an English person. Besides, these countries are experiencing a mild boom as a result of their recent adherence to the EU feeding trough. The work situation in Rumania is now far better than many of the places in Europe where they emmigrated to for work. So it's possible they'll go back.
Joined: May 27, 2008 Posts: 36 Location: Irish in Idaho
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
Yes, Energycity....move back to familiar territory....
I am certainly getting a feeling that I don't want to stay here in the US WTSHTF, I was here before in the 90's and left, it is not a place to be unless one has a strong base, a good community and a gun.
I know that there is a possibility of Anarchy in the UK, there are just too many people next door to us. A lot of rural people have guns, more than you think; apparently through the troubles in the North of Ireland most rural folk there were armed to the teeth.
So I know I sound doomish, but I can't see anywhere escaping from the future. There is awareness in Ireland about PO, and some people are powering down and forming self sufficient communities, we already have had foreigners coming here to power down over the past 35 years.
A ray of hope is that the Green party are totally in tune with PO and now are in a position to do things as Environment and Energy ministers. Energy conservation on a domestic level is high on their agenda. We import all our fossil fuels, bar some domestic gas. There are now grants for solar and wind with a possibility of a connecting a wind turbine to the grid.
and .....maybe we need a bigger Army !!
T8 _________________ live simply so that others may simply live
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
virgincrude wrote:
Karlos: I think we're the only two!
Do you ever check out crisisenergetica.org? I can't stand the forum layout, too messy.
Just checked it. You're right, too boring and messy. The americans do it much better, got to admit. Bad news people here in Spain are not preparing at all for PO. They'll all come for us!
Seriously, I was wondering what Zapatero's government would do WTSHTF. (cuando la mierda llegue al ventilador). Military control of transport? Food rationing? (like our grandfathers lived after the war).
Joined: Mar 09, 2006 Posts: 554 Location: Al-Mariyya, Al-Andalus
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
Karlos, I think we're witnessing Zapatero's response right now .... although the PSOE were the only party (excepting the Greens, of course but when did they ever have a real chance at governing? therefore, they don't count ....) with any kind of energy programme in their party propaganda. They had a discussion of this in the election run-up on crisisenergetica, where everybody is pretty much as gloomy as we should be considering PO awareness and preparations are practically (en la practica) inexistent. The PSOE are PO aware, in as much as they get their info from the EIA, which means they undoubtedly perceive it as something way in the distance.
In any case, you are probably better placed in Barcelona to find PO aware people, since Catalunya is pretty much the 'brains' of Spain (which places me pretty much in the arse hole which just goes to show where the sun shines most in Spain )
I think food rationing is a definate maybe, but there will be so much social disturbance over this (violence in the street) that it will make the kale boroka look like a picnic. I must remember to ask my aunts and uncles what was that stuff they used to pluck from the fields to eat during the guerra civil and aftermath...... Have you got somewhere to grow food? If anybody put their minds to it now, food transport around Spain could be transitioned to sail boat and electric vehicles. At least places like Barcelona and Sevilla have started public bike rental schemes and Sevilla has a smart new tramway and soon to be inaugurated underground.
However. Since most of the electricity we need comes mostly courtesy of Sarkosy, we're about as prepared as a pig for the slaughter ......
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
Some people will make it in their countries and some will not.
Many who havent prepared for anything will suffer and may have to take to the road in search of better things.
That could lead them anywhere.
I see the refugees from the east walking through here almost every day.It will get worse.
Even the Europeans will eventually relocate if they must.
Where Im working in central Greece this summer there are many Germans, English,even Americans looking to buy homes.
Also I think that even in a foreign country,if one has been there long enough,and is a permanent resident,knows the natives for years and his relations with them are good it wont be so bad.Im talking maybe 7 years or more.One just becomes part of the community then.
Sure there may be some racism,but in the end,I think the natives will still throw you a bone.lol.
If one has been there that long,they have had time to make friends.Very important. _________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
JohnM wrote:
I live in Finland at the moment and odds are rather good for this country. Low population and density, good infrastructure, technologically developed, lots of forrests, arable land and more than enough fresh water.
A crucial factor is also, how law-abiding and socially responsible will the people remain when unemployment is over 50% and electricity and heating are rationed? I'm not expecting zombie hordes but there will definitely be a lot of blame and bitterness around. Expect huge electoral victories for those who are most able to channel this anger against an easily defined scapegoat.
JohnM wrote:
One bad side however, Finland is directly geographically connected to Russia.
I don't think Russia would find anything here worth an invasion and occupation, both of which consume an enormous amount of energy. The only possible reason for a Russian attack would be an expansion of its defensive buffer zone, in case Russia feels threatened by a Western power via the Northern route (cf. Winter War in 1939).
JohnM wrote:
But the only thing I'm personally concerned about right now is the military, we have compulsory drafting and I'm of that age, three years over it actually. I love my country but I wouldn't say I'm a nationalist and I certainly have no interest in fighting any stupid (resource) wars.
The wartime size of the Finnish army is constantly reduced because of the high cost of modern warfare. Even though I've done my stint in the military, my chances of being actually drafted in a conflict are getting smaller all the time.
Besides, there are positive aspects in the "national army" with compulsory draft. It provides a force to control civil disorders (if the police is overwhelmed). Jobless, frustrated men in the reserve forces can be deployed to work in forestry as an emergency aid as an increasing amount of wood is needed for heating. _________________ "The progress of civilization:
bondage --> spiritual faith --> courage --> liberty --> abundance --> complacency --> apathy --> dependence --> bondage." - Alexander Tyler
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I'm in Almeria, you?
which just goes to show where the sun shines most in Spain 
)
