Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: May 07, 2008 Posts: 455 Location: Chaska, MN
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Will ammo prices keep skyrocketing?
Well I would say there are a couple factors involved, but all focused on supply and demand. Metals keep going up up up and so you will see that reflected in ammo prices. Add in the fact that more and more people seem to be arming themselves and their family members and you've got a pretty good recipe for a continued inflation of prices.
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Will ammo prices keep skyrocketing?
I believe they will keep going up. The cost of raw materials (copper, lead) coupled with other business cost increases (energy costs, health care, etc) will push prices up.
Also, the U.N. has gotten many countries that used to surplus their older ammo (South Africa, Portugal, Britain, etc) to destroy their surplus rather than sell it on the open market. There is less surplus ammo available, which means less supply, which is also driving prices up.
I personally buy lots of surplus and eastern European ammo from wholesalers. My local Academy sporting goods store has good deals on Remington UMC 9mm ball also.
I can post some links to very reputable and competitively priced ammo wholesalers, if you like. You can get cases shipped directly to your door.
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Will ammo prices keep skyrocketing?
Does anyone have figures on how much ammo is used on a daily basis in Iraq? If the Dems win and pull out of Iraq would that add much ammo to the market to lessen prices or not enough to make much of a difference?
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Will ammo prices keep skyrocketing?
I forgot to add the SW Asia conflicts to my list of reasons. Thanks Joel. I don't know the exact answer to your question, Joel, but I believe that if that were to happen, that you would start to see some more Lake City USA surplus on the market in time (which is virtually non-existent at the moment).
Here are some people that I have bought ammo from for almost 10 years now. I trust them very much.
www.aimsurplus.com <- Erik at Aim Surplus is the best guy in the business in my book.
www.amunitiontogo.com <- Great prices, friendly staff, and just up the road from me in Brenham, the home of Blue Bell ice cream.
www.ammoman.com <- I believe his name is Eric also. Wide assortment of surplus, as well as current-production American and foreign ammo.
www.wideners.com <- Not as wide of a selection as others, but good prices. Reloading supplies.
www.grafs.com/ <- Never ordered from them but they have a very good reputation. Lots of reloading supplies.
If you have a 01 or 03 federal firearms license, you can order from Century Arms. They are the biggest arms importer in the entire USA. They only sell to entities licensed by the BATF. I used to have an 03 collectors firearms license and would order directly from them. Century's policy on ammo shipping (a few years ago anyway) is $13 flat rate, irrespective of quantity. So you can order 3,000 rounds of .308 (195 pounds) and shipping is still only $13. That's a heckuva deal. Their self-assembled firearms are abominations but their ammo deals are incredible sometimes.
www.centuryarms.com
The US Civilian Marksmanship Program also sells good-quality surplus .30-06 for about $0.30 per round to use in M1 Garands and Remington 1903's. You need to jump through the hoops to get qualified with them, but it's not too hard. You can also buy an M1 Garand or .22 training rifle from them.
http://odcmp.com/
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Will ammo prices keep skyrocketing?
allenwrench wrote:
Is there a limit to how high ammumnion will go..or no limit?
Ammo, like everything else, is NOT "going up"......the paper fiat we use to buy it is simply getting crappier.
Example: 1964 when I first started driving, gasoline was 30 cents/gal......3 silver dimes.
Today, gasoline is STILL 3 silver dimes......but the silver dimes cost 1.30 in paper fiat to get.
Neither the gas nor the silver dimes changed much.....the paper simply got more worthless.
And since they are creating it by the boatload in one bubble after another, or to bailout someone from the last bubble, then odds are, yes...in terms of FRN ( federal reserve notes ), ammo is "going up".....along with about everything else, and it gets faster and faster toward the end of the fiat scheme. Count on it.
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Will ammo prices keep skyrocketing?
Not exactly. I agree that the falling dollar drives up the prices when buying surplus ammo or copper. But Portuguese .308 was $0.15 per round in 2004. Today it is about $0.65 per round, if you can find it at all. It is more of a supply issue, I think, not as much because of currency debasement.
Pressure on the supply of raw materials for current production ammo similarly affects prices for new production.
Last edited by GeoJAP on Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Will ammo prices keep skyrocketing?
GeoJAP wrote:
I forgot to add the SW Asia conflicts to my list of reasons. Thanks Joel. I don't know the exact answer to your question, Joel, but I believe that if that were to happen, that you would start to see some more Lake City USA surplus on the market in time (which is virtually non-existent at the moment).
Here are some people that I have bought ammo from for almost 10 years now. I trust them very much.
www.aimsurplus.com <- Erik at Aim Surplus is the best guy in the business in my book.
www.amunitiontogo.com <- Great prices, friendly staff, and just up the road from me in Brenham, the home of Blue Bell ice cream.
www.ammoman.com <- I believe his name is Eric also. Wide assortment of surplus, as well as current-production American and foreign ammo.
www.wideners.com <- Not as wide of a selection as others, but good prices. Reloading supplies.
www.grafs.com/ <- Never ordered from them but they have a very good reputation. Lots of reloading supplies.
If you have a 01 or 03 federal firearms license, you can order from Century Arms. They are the biggest arms importer in the entire USA. They only sell to entities licensed by the BATF. I used to have an 03 collectors firearms license and would order directly from them. Century's policy on ammo shipping (a few years ago anyway) is $13 flat rate, irrespective of quantity. So you can order 3,000 rounds of .308 (195 pounds) and shipping is still only $13. That's a heckuva deal. Their self-assembled firearms are abominations but their ammo deals are incredible sometimes.
www.centuryarms.com
The US Civilian Marksmanship Program also sells good-quality surplus .30-06 for about $0.30 per round to use in M1 Garands and Remington 1903's. You need to jump through the hoops to get qualified with them, but it's not too hard. You can also buy an M1 Garand or .22 training rifle from them.
http://odcmp.com/
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Will ammo prices keep skyrocketing?
I don't think that metals prices are the driving force behind it. Copper prices have been fairly flat for about two years. Lead prices maxed out last fall and are currently in a pretty significant down trend.
_________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Will ammo prices keep skyrocketing?
smallpoxgirl wrote:
I don't think that metals prices are the driving force behind it. Copper prices have been fairly flat for about two years. Lead prices maxed out last fall and are currently in a pretty significant down trend.
If I was to hazard a semi-educated guess, I'd have to say that the price increase is due to a combination of all the factors listed above: SW Asia conflicts, commodity prices, dollar devaluation, decreased surplus supply, and energy prices.
IIRC, 2004 was when a lot of different surplus ammo just started disappearing altogether off the market. $0.06/round Turkish 8mm surplus disappeared, and now costs $0.40/round if you can find it, $0.10/round .308 surplus is gone and costs $0.55/round if you can find it.
2006 was when a lot of prices on continuously available ammo started to noticeably increase. Winchester, Remington et al. cited "increased production costs". And it's still increasing.
The only ammo I can still afford to buy in bulk is the current-production ammo from eastern European countries. Barnaul, Silver Bear and Wolf from Russia is steel cased but functions just fine in my gas piston rifles. Privi Partizan is very high quality ammo from Serbia. It has a brass case so you can shoot it reliably in your ARs or nice bolt action rifles, and it's reloadable. I occasionally find some Lake City, Federal or Remington ammo on sale and snap it up, but that isn't too often.
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