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Peakoil.com :: View topic - Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll)
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Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll)
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Has the Oil 'Superspike" Begun?
Yes
58%
 58%  [ 63 ]
No
29%
 29%  [ 32 ]
Other
11%
 11%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 107

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DantesPeak
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Has it begun? Did it start yesterday when well known oil tanker tracking firm, Oil Movements, said most OPEC oil exports in June were expected to go to Asian locations - and not to the US or Europe? Was it today when Israel implied that the bombing of Iran's new nuclear plant was under active consideration?

Or is this just a speculative bubble or the work of greedy traders?

Here are some recent threads on what the 'Superspike' is about:

New 'Superspike' Report Update: $200 Oil Possible

Goldman: Oil to hit $150-200 in 6-24 months

Goldman Sachs 2005 "super-spike" prediction just h...
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joeltrout
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I voted no. Call me crazy.

A superspike gives the impression of a temporary peak in prices and then prices will afterwards fall. I am seeing a dramatic upward trend that will not drop back down to previous levels of $40-$50 oil.

I think what we are seeing is markets realizing supply/demand issues are real and have no solution as of now. Speculation plays a healthy role in that.

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yull
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Historically, looking over the past decades, the whole last few years could be classed as a super spike. Recent price movements though certainly seem to show an acceleration of things and perhaps we are now reaching a tipping point where the price explodes as the peak, declining exports, and declining net oil energy break the buffer systems that have been adsorbing things over recent years. Now they are broke, if they have, who knows what will happen.

Maybe time to head for the hills!
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TireFire
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Major cities are already seeing people adjust to high oil prices. just look at the public transportation sector.

Demand will drop in the near future, prior to the end of the year. I believe prices will remain very high (150$ per barrel) and remain there, but world demand and consumption will drop eventually and signs of this happening are already starting to emerge.
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joeltrout
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

yull wrote:
Historically, looking over the past decades, the whole last few years could be classed as a super spike.


But doesn't a spike imply that prices will come back down in the future? The prices might soften but I don't see them dropping down to previous levels.

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yull
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Depends on your definition I suppose. I agree though that this is something that is permanent, minus some unforeseen event, and that will be temporary itself.
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GoghGoner
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

joeltrout wrote:
But doesn't a spike imply that prices will come back down in the future? The prices might soften but I don't see them dropping down to previous levels.

joeltrout


Yeah, I think your picture of a spike it correct. However, I don't think it has to come down as far as it went up to be a spike. I believe that if the price goes up to $200 quickly then we will see a fall in demand caused by economic collapse and then the price will come down quickly until it starts to go back up. Heck, I think if prices hold around $120 we will suffer enough economically to cause a major adjustment in demand.
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pstarr
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

GoghGoner wrote:
joeltrout wrote:
But doesn't a spike imply that prices will come back down in the future? The prices might soften but I don't see them dropping down to previous levels.

joeltrout


Yeah, I think your picture of a spike it correct. However, I don't think it has to come down as far as it went up to be a spike. I believe that if the price goes up to $200 quickly then we will see a fall in demand caused by economic collapse and then the price will come down quickly until it starts to go back up. Heck, I think if prices hold around $120 we will suffer enough economically to cause a major adjustment in demand.
Ultimately I don't think the spike or the troughs can be qualified. The fact of the economic collapse will trump whatever price petroleum happens to be at that the various moments of collapse. The price may even bounce around while all the other indicators collapse.
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errorist
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Now everybody in the bussiness has read trough Peak Oil issue and is familar of things to come. Bye-bye keeping old models alive.

Must buy a roll of high quality tinfoil and some popcorn.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I voted yes. At the end of last year, I thought the price action would settle down somewhat. In hindsight the oil price had already blasted off vertically and has now set record after record ahead of the difficult time of year. There was room for differences of interpretation then. There is only one direction it is going in Q3. After that, I still think a sharp pullback is possible.
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emersonbiggins
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Superspike started- maybe not, but hoarding - hell yes! Twisted Evil
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dohboi
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

As I've said elsewhere, we've already been on an exponential curve the last few years, doubling every two years or so. Now we're on track to double in six months (having gone up ~50% in ~three). If unabated this is either a great acceleration of the exponential curve or the beginning of kind of hyperbolic curve, where the period of doubling keeps shrinking.

Either one is pretty damn scary.

I ask the esteemed economists on the thread to please inform us where their vaunted "demand destruction" is? Why hasn't it kicked in to greatly lower prices so far? When do they think it will finally show up?

This is getting to feel like the Samuel Becket absurdist play "Waiting for Godot" where the hapless characters aimlessly wait around for a mysterious character to appear, but he never does.
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mmasters
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

No.
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Duende
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

dohboi wrote:
Quote:
I ask the esteemed economists on the thread to please inform us where their vaunted "demand destruction" is? Why hasn't it kicked in to greatly lower prices so far? When do they think it will finally show up?

This is getting to feel like the Samuel Becket absurdist play "Waiting for Godot" where the hapless characters aimlessly wait around for a mysterious character to appear, but he never does.


I was wondering the same thing. If I were to ask anybody last year at this time if the economy could handle $139 oil for any amount of time at all, they would have all said hell no. Yet here we are. Yes demand has been 'destroyed' by 4% in the US, but that's hardly making a dent in business as usual.

How much more demand can be destroyed before economic destruction begins?
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DantesPeak
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the Oil 'Superspike' Started? (Poll) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Duende wrote:
dohboi wrote:
Quote:
I ask the esteemed economists on the thread to please inform us where their vaunted "demand destruction" is? Why hasn't it kicked in to greatly lower prices so far? When do they think it will finally show up?

This is getting to feel like the Samuel Becket absurdist play "Waiting for Godot" where the hapless characters aimlessly wait around for a mysterious character to appear, but he never does.


I was wondering the same thing. If I were to ask anybody last year at this time if the economy could handle $139 oil for any amount of time at all, they would have all said hell no. Yet here we are. Yes demand has been 'destroyed' by 4% in the US, but that's hardly making a dent in business as usual.

How much more demand can be destroyed before economic destruction begins?


The average price in 2007 for imported oil through August 2007 was $60. While the price of diesel/gasoline goes up almost immeadiately due to higher oil prices many other things do not rise in price right away.

Shipping companies hope that oil prices won't stay high and resist raising prices. Service companies can't raise prices frequently. In China, it takes some time to refine oil into plastic, send it to a plant, and ship it across the world to the US.

The intrastate highway system was built with $20 oil.

So I'm saying it takes a long time for oil prices to be fully reflected
in consumer prices. But yes, demand is being destoyed right now, and will be at an accelerating pace through the rest of 2008. Perhaps more importantly, demand is not being destroyed fast enough and discretionary non-energy spending will take a big hit.

The answer to your question then is, no the economy can't handle $139 oil, but right now it thinks oil is about $60 to $70 based upon the current average price of goods and services.
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