I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Tens of thousands of Spanish lorry drivers have begun an indefinite strike over the soaring price of diesel, which has risen by 20% this year.
After stopping work at midnight, many disrupted traffic at one of the border crossings between Spain and France.
A number of lorries crossing the picket lines had their windscreens broken, lights ripped out and tyres slashed.
[...]
Overnight, about 200 lorry drivers parked their vehicles beside roadside toll booths in the Catalonian town of La Jonquera, close to the border with France.
The protesters prevented other lorries from passing, and caused delays to car traffic.
Hundreds of lorry drivers also staged "snail protests" on the ring roads around the capital, Madrid, and Barcelona. There have also been protests in the Basque country and Valencia.
Most of the 90,000 hauliers participating in the strike are self-employed, or working for small and medium-sized haulage companies, and they have warned that many supermarkets will run out of goods within days. Petrol supplies may also be disrupted.
I live in Madrid, I have nothing to do with the strike, but in my work there is a lot of concern that the fuel is going to run out by the weekend, so all of them are filling their car's tank, and also they are talking about buying a lot of food before the stores run out of food. People are really concerned - some of them are not using the car, just for precaution and taking the bus. In work, all deliveries are being affected, nothing is normal, this is really affecting all of us, we want solutions fast!
Ariadna, Madrid, Spain
Quote:
Longer queues are starting to form at petrol stations here, as people fill up just in case. I also went to the supermarket early this morning as always but it was three times as busy as usual. If this carries on, petrol stations and supermarkets will be empty of fuel and fresh produce within a few days. Let's hope it doesn't last too long, everyone is affected by the massive hikes in fuel. This is the fault of governments which should have seen this coming years ago and prepared for it, together with the huge oil companies which probably "persuaded" them not to do anything.
John Wilkings, Benahavis, Spain
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
Quote:
The drivers want the Spanish government to establish, by law, a minimum price for their services, and to ensure that haulage contracts better reflect the fluctuating cost of fuel, which has risen by more than 20% since the start of the year.
Why don't they try raising their prices for hauling first, or have they already tried that? Most of these kinds of contracts in the US have the ablity to recoup fuel cost fluctuations via a "fuel surcharge adjustment." _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
Kingcoal: Perhabs supermarkets don't want to pay more for the transport. But indeed, that's the only logical thing to do, as we are supposed yet to be in a business as usual scenario.
If oil gets to 200, 300 and 1'000$ a barrel, government will certainly have to do something more communist.
It will be funny to see how our capitalist countries will soon claim that communism is the best economic system, and even will pretend they always thought that way (remember 1984?).
Anyway, capitalism privatizes profits and nationalizes loss.
We are entering the loss area. Forever.
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
It is not often that such a good stress test comes along. Many will be watching developments with interest. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
vision-master wrote:
Is the USA next?
LOL
no.
There's an over-supply of truck drivers.
Not to sound mean but if 5% of truck drivers went out of business / lost their jobs there would still be plenty enough of truck drivers left to deliver ALL the necessary goods to keep the economy functioning.
The best thing to do is step back and do nothing and let the free market does what it does best.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2880 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
This is what you have the Guardia Civil for. Asskicking time!
I'm not sure, but I think the Swedish government can declare a trucker strike illegal if they feel like it. At least they can do it for officers, policemen, doctors and nurses. If you then refuse to go back to work you will be prosecuted. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
I think there's two basic reasons they'd rather have low fuel prices. 1: If they charge more, there's going to be less work for them and some will be laid off. 2: The drivers don't directly set their own fees, and fuel surcharges seem to be lagging quite a bit behind the spike in price. They're getting fuel surcharges based on where prices were 6 months ago, not where they are now. _________________ "So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.
I hear leaders quit their lying
I hear babies quit their crying.
I hear soldiers quit their dying, one and all." - OCMS
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
This in of itself will cause shortages as the "top off the tank" scenario drags on a stressed system. Theoretically prices should actually increase from this action, and increase present demand.
I'd look to this as a model to see how governments are going to react when people test their boogy men. Keep prices high and kill demand? If they know peak oil is the real problem maybe we'll see some indication here. On the otherhand, if they just cut taxes, or provide some relief, that's a good indicator that they don't have a clue since that will in effect stimulate growth when we really need reduction.
Don't sweat it - we already failed that test in the US. People seem to be spending those $600 "stimulus" checks like it's their job.
I live in Madrid, I have nothing to do with the strike, but in my work there is a lot of concern that the fuel is going to run out by the weekend, so all of them are filling their car's tank, and also they are talking about buying a lot of food before the stores run out of food. People are really concerned - some of them are not using the car, just for precaution and taking the bus. In work, all deliveries are being affected, nothing is normal, this is really affecting all of us, we want solutions fast!
Ariadna, Madrid, Spain
Quote:
Longer queues are starting to form at petrol stations here, as people fill up just in case. I also went to the supermarket early this morning as always but it was three times as busy as usual. If this carries on, petrol stations and supermarkets will be empty of fuel and fresh produce within a few days. Let's hope it doesn't last too long, everyone is affected by the massive hikes in fuel. This is the fault of governments which should have seen this coming years ago and prepared for it, together with the huge oil companies which probably "persuaded" them not to do anything.
John Wilkings, Benahavis, Spain
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
Quote:
I live in Madrid, I have nothing to do with the strike, but in my work there is a lot of concern that the fuel is going to run out by the weekend, so all of them are filling their car's tank, and also they are talking about buying a lot of food before the stores run out of food. People are really concerned - some of them are not using the car, just for precaution and taking the bus. In work, all deliveries are being affected, nothing is normal, this is really affecting all of us, we want solutions fast!
Ariadna, Madrid, Spain
There are no fast solutions, make friends with your neighbors, ignore all the structure of society, and start farming every bit of land in that city. Or go and do the same somewhere outside the city. And try to do it in a sustainable way
But this will not happen, there are more chances of the world destroying itself by mistake with nuclear weapons than people getting smart and doing this.
Joined: Feb 23, 2005 Posts: 511 Location: Winnipeg
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
I dont understand the truckers actions. Are they part of some government union? It sounds like they're private business people. Why do they feel the government owes them money for high fuel charges? Is it just a European thing? I understand its brutal with the fuel increases but why do they feel punishing the general public is the proper course of action? There has to be more to the story. Is there some sort of attempt by the large trucking companies to price their competition out of business?
Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 738 Location: Illinois
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
zoidberg wrote:
I dont understand the truckers actions. Are they part of some government union? It sounds like they're private business people. Why do they feel the government owes them money for high fuel charges? Is it just a European thing? I understand its brutal with the fuel increases but why do they feel punishing the general public is the proper course of action? There has to be more to the story. Is there some sort of attempt by the large trucking companies to price their competition out of business?
The ones striking are independent truckers. They are asking for a minimum haulage rate("IE, minimum wage"). The big trucking companies can ship more cheaply than a small independent trucker can. Thus they can afford to stay in business at low haulage rates and high fuel rates while independent truckers can't. To me, it seems similar to a local record store owner getting pushed out of business by a tower records that opened across the street. _________________ The oil barrel is half-full.
Joined: Feb 23, 2005 Posts: 511 Location: Winnipeg
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: 90,000 Spanish Hauliers On Fuel Strike
kublikhan wrote:
zoidberg wrote:
I dont understand the truckers actions. Are they part of some government union? It sounds like they're private business people. Why do they feel the government owes them money for high fuel charges? Is it just a European thing? I understand its brutal with the fuel increases but why do they feel punishing the general public is the proper course of action? There has to be more to the story. Is there some sort of attempt by the large trucking companies to price their competition out of business?
The ones striking are independent truckers. They are asking for a minimum haulage rate("IE, minimum wage"). The big trucking companies can ship more cheaply than a small independent trucker can. Thus they can afford to stay in business at low haulage rates and high fuel rates while independent truckers can't. To me, it seems similar to a local record store owner getting pushed out of business by a tower records that opened across the street.
Thanks for the analogy. It sounds like a case of them trying to say that two wrongs make a right. At least its not a matter of demanding taxpayer money. Sympathy level:low but not negligible.
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