I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
Jevon in action. _________________ "So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.
I hear leaders quit their lying
I hear babies quit their crying.
I hear soldiers quit their dying, one and all." - OCMS
Joined: Aug 14, 2007 Posts: 261 Location: Montreal Canada
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
Al Gore is that guy who is spending big bucks on big houses , driving big nice cars and flies every day in a jet engine airplane? No way, he cares too much about the planet to do that! [/sarcasm]
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
Gores' done a good job of Rearranging deck chairs on the good ship Industrial Civilization. _________________ "One minute I held the key, next the walls were closed on me, and I discovered that my castle stands upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand."
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
Gore reminds me of the rich environmentalist/hippy from the sixties. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. I hate to do it, but I'll use a quote from GWB. Regarding increasing taxes, Bush made a funny but true comment saying that if you want higher taxes, the IRS has no problem with you overpaying your current taxes. In fact, the IRS will gladly accept any extra donations without any problem whatsoever. The moral of the story is that you have to put your money where your mouth is. Most all people who "want" higher taxes are talking about other people's taxes, not their own. It's the same with other things that people scold other people about. If you are preaching environmentalism 24/7, but live like every other rich person; consuming as much as possible, then you are a hypocrite. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Joined: Apr 16, 2008 Posts: 121 Location: Western PA, USA
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
Not to defend the man, but what would his energy use be by use per square foot. Considering he has such a large house compared to most Americans, would it not be more appropriate to compare the average American's home energy use per square foot to that of Al Gore's use to see just how much of an "energy hog" Al Gore really is?
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
His electric bill went up primarily because of replacing furnaces with heat pumps. I'm betting his natural gas bill went down substantially.
Of course, my 2-person bungalow uses about 1/42nd of Al's house in electricity (i.e., less than half the national average). On another thread, we found several PO members who use even less.
Sadly, though, Al would be mercilessly mocked if he took the Jerry Brown/Ralph Nader approach and demonstrated real energy efficiency. As much as I'd love to see Al and Tipper hanging clothes on a clothesline, Jay Leno wouldn't stop razzing him on it.
The fluorescent bulb thing is acceptable, because that involved *buying* something. Clotheslines/bikes/transit are not acceptable to most, because they involve *doing* something. _________________ At 1% annual growth, human bodies will incorporate every gram in the observable universe in approximately 10,170 years.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
Reminds me of the Kennedy that was on Hannity and Combs. He was touting small cars and houses and cutting back for everyone. When nailed down, he admitted to having 3 homes and flying private jets to his appearances. And to having 3 SUV's etc.
His excuse was that he NEEDS those things as opposed to the masses. He said if you NEED them they areokay to have.
Al is the same, he flies all over the globe bullshitting and making money off the green movement and consumes millions of times more energy than I will ever use. BUT HE NEEDS it. See the difference?
I laugh at the movie stars driving a prius and having 3 homes or 40,000 sq ft homes at the same time, flying all over the world etc. Its so disgusting but the media never calls them on it. OH NO, dont touch the stars. John Travolta has 5 jets and preaches conservation to ME. Get out of here.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
Kingcoal wrote:
Bush made a funny but true comment saying that if you want higher taxes, the IRS has no problem with you overpaying your current taxes. In fact, the IRS will gladly accept any extra donations without any problem whatsoever. The moral of the story is that you have to put your money where your mouth is.
This is dumb. No one wants higher taxes for the sake of higher taxes. They want better funding for needed govt programs. It's just the kind of idiotic sarcasm you'd expect from GWB. Stop talking about the amount of taxation, and start talking about how it's spent.
On topic: First of all, I question the source, it's an obvious hit-piece using Gore's hypocrisy, real or imagined, as being in some way relevant to the scientific question of Global Warming - what they can't do by fake science, they do by smears. It's really farking pathetic. Regardless, this is a perfect time to bring up the difference between conservation and "energy efficiency" these days code-named "Green." This has nothing to do with the former.
Gore may have made the same mistake that millions of well meaning consumers who want to "do something" to mitigate this overwhelming, heartbreaking disaster we find ourselves in the middle of, but who are too caught up in the middle of it to really help anything. That is, they accept the "green" sales pitch. It isn't hypocrisy so much as wishful thinking. They hope buying green will save the planet in the same way they hoped buying the Abdominizer would give them a six-pack. What's farking depressing is that there are a million opportunists just waiting to slap the "green" label on whatever piece of throwaway trash on some flimsy pretext that it is "recyleABLE" or something. The construction and building industry is awash with this kind of branding these days.
Energy efficiency means switching out your lightbulbs for fluorescents. Conservation means turning off your lights. You can't buy conservation and so it never makes the Style Section. And you can thank the "wisdom of the market" for that. There is a fundamental difference between the two, which can be explained in one sentence.
Jevon's law applies to efficiency, not conservation.
By the way, the above comment that this is Jevons in action is mistaken. This has nothing to do with Jevons. This has to do with marketing.
edit: for the record - i would never actually write the word "farking" - the site seems to like to change the standard term into its TV friendly code version... too bad, it's such a good word.
Last edited by aflurry on Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
Al Gore - The man who put the "douche" in "douche bag." _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
joelcolorado wrote:
I laugh at the movie stars driving a prius and having 3 homes or 40,000 sq ft homes at the same time, flying all over the world etc. Its so disgusting but the media never calls them on it. OH NO, dont touch the stars. John Travolta has 5 jets and preaches conservation to ME. Get out of here.
Why would you expect the media to call them on it? They get their checks cut by the same people. The movie star nonsense is just noise. It doesn't cancel out the actual real life need for conservation.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
You cannot defend Als multiple homes nor his jet setting around the world on private jets. Nor his making $100 million so far on his GREEN investments. Those are facts and he admits to them.
Its like the rich evangellist begging for money for the poor and sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars. Hypocrisy at any level smells to high heaven
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
joelcolorado wrote:
You cannot defend Als multiple homes nor his jet setting around the world on private jets. Nor his making $100 million so far on his GREEN investments. Those are facts and he admits to them.
Its like the rich evangellist begging for money for the poor and sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars. Hypocrisy at any level smells to high heaven
You may be right about the homes and the "jet-setting." Whatever. But let's talk about his making money off GREEN investments. What's supposed to be wrong with that again? So-called "honest" capitalists try to come up with a reason that profit must be anathema to environmentalism, then turn around and say the only motivating factor for any endeavor is profit.
seems like a cheap way to try to castrate any environmental action.
I thought the market was supposed to "incentivize" the best ideas with money. The question is whether you can have a green capitalism, or whether it will always be a meaningless brand slapped on the same old plastic crap.
I don't know the answer to that question, but insofar as Gore is involved in some hypocrisy, it is only because he is part of this green capitalism which may be oxymoronic at base or may still juyst be looking for the killer app that actually does what it says it's going to do.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Gore’s home guzzles even more energy after green renovat
dsula wrote:
does anybody know how it's even possible to burn that much electricity. Seriously, what is he doing. Having an aluminum smelter in the basement?
one of the reasons i question the source.... is he running a business out of his house like a server farm they are counting as "household" energy usage? something doesn't smell right about these claims.
1. The TPRC claims they use 20 times more than the average household. The AP says it's closer to 12 times. not to mention the house is a large and apparently old building.
2. Both he and his wife run businesses out of the house, so adjustments should be made for that.
3. His main defense is that he chooses energy from renewable sources, and that he buys offsetting carbon credits. no comment here about the effectiveness of this strategy. it's one of those complicated interplays between physical resources and economy... hard to predict.
The urbanlegends conclusion is that yes, the high energy usage is true, but that no, he's not a hypocrite because his offsetting scheme is consistent with his recommendations.
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