Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Jun 14, 2008 Posts: 81 Location: With one foot in ascent and the other in descent
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: One thing lost, something else gained
Garrison Keillor gets it.
Quote:
"So we will need to amuse ourselves in new ways. I predict that banjo sales will pick up. The screened porch will come back in style. And the art of storytelling will burgeon along with it. Stories are common currency in life but only to people on foot. Nobody ever told a story to a clerk at a drive-up window, but you can walk up to the lady at the check-out counter and make small talk and she might tell you, as a woman told me the other day as she rang up my groceries, that she had gotten a puppy that day to replace the old dog who had to be put down a month ago, and right there was a little exchange of humanity. Her willingness to tell me that made her real to me. People who aren't real to each other are dangerous to each other. Stories give us the simple empathy that is the basis of the Golden Rule, which is the basis of civilized society....
So when gas passes $5 and heads for $8 and $10, we will learn to sit in dim light with our loved ones and talk about hunting and fishing adventures, about war and romance and times of consummate foolishness when we threw caution to the wind and flung ourselves over the Cliffs of Desire and did not land on the Sharp Rocks of Regret.
I'll tell you about the motor home trip and how lovely it was, cruising the prairie at night and drinking beer, stopping by a little creek and grilling fish on a Coleman stove, listening to coyotes. The vanishing of the R.V. only makes your story more interesting. One thing lost, something else gained. Life is like that."
For every loss that Peak Oil will bring, I can see gains, often more than one. Having to switch to bike and foot because you can't drive the car anymore means better health, slower living, more social interactions, weight loss, and so on. We could make a list of gains/trade-offs; thinking this way sure helps me to adapt. _________________ Because it's all about the oil.
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
In my opinion, thinking that way only takes your focus off of the important things.
Sure, families will become closer, hypersexual promiscuity will end, STD transmission will be reduced, late onset diabetes will disappear, heart disease will go way down.
So what?
When 5 billion people are dying around you, there is no upside. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Jun 14, 2008 Posts: 81 Location: With one foot in ascent and the other in descent
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
I prefer not to think of the rest of my life as having no upside. And I see huge benefits to less people in solving all of our environmental problems. The people are going to have to go anyway; either through famine, pestilence, or war. Might as well get something good out of the big changes as well as the small ones.
Your argument, Cashmere, sounds like argument for argument's sake. Or is that the best you've got for coping mechanisms? _________________ Because it's all about the oil.
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
There are always positives and negatives, focus on whichever you feel comfortable-- although IMO I think coping mechanisms are pretty difficult to change and slowly evolve throughout your life.
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
Quote:
Your argument, Cashmere, sounds like argument for argument's sake. Or is that the best you've got for coping mechanisms?
Heard aboard the Titanic: "On a positive note, the band will be playing early tonight."
I don't need to cope.
I'm not making argument for argument's sake.
I'm advising people not to get caught up thinking there will be any upside to this.
There is no upside - there is only catastrophe, and it's my opinion that thinking about it any other way just makes you less ready, mentally, for what's ahead. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
It's hard to have a single emotion about the Whole Big Picture.
I mean, i kind of feel like, the oil was always there, and we - being what we are- were eventually going to find it and start gulping the stuff down.
And, given everything i suppose i'd rather be alive right now seeing it all go down than at any other time in the past... it'll be interesting, at least until i get rounded up into a work camp or die of starvation.
... and i mean all those 6 billion people were going to die eventually, they will just die sooner now. i mean this seriously, and i don't think it's flippant or heartless even. when your perspective gets so wide with issues like the fate of the planet, you lose that urgent sense of "this is good, that is bad."
... jeez Cash, what's so bad about hypersexual promiscuity... among consenting adults. _________________ "Whooaa ohh ohh. You'll still be driving yo' Escalade. Meanwhile, I ride on an ass." - The Gourds
Joined: Jun 14, 2008 Posts: 81 Location: With one foot in ascent and the other in descent
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
Cashmere wrote:
There is no upside - there is only catastrophe, and it's my opinion that thinking about it any other way just makes you less ready, mentally, for what's ahead.
Cashmere, I didn't realize you were such a closet doomer. I think that being in a such a high level of alert is probably not sustainable and not good for the body. Our bodies are made for fight/flight reactions which are based on periods of minutes and hours, not weeks, months, or years. Descent could take decades of slow grinding contractions of the economy and extraction of energy wastefulness. I've been watching this come for quite a while. That level of alertness that you are talking about would not have been sustainable for four months for me, much less four decades. _________________ Because it's all about the oil.
Joined: Jun 14, 2008 Posts: 81 Location: With one foot in ascent and the other in descent
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
aflurry wrote:
when you drive your car off a cliff, perhaps the absolute least important thing at that time is whether you were "ready" for it.
Good point. Sometimes when you brace hard, you hurt yourself more than if you just stayed loose. Or you can overcorrect or overreact. And if the car is truly headed off of a Thelma and Louise cliff, you might as well enjoy the view. _________________ Because it's all about the oil.
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
You want to be aware and vigilant without being hyper vigilant or overcome with depression becauuse that's going to do any organism far more harm than anything peak oil could do.
Also, Cashmere, How you figure 5 billion people are going to die, is beyond me. At least 3 billion of those, aren't very oil dependent.
Joined: Nov 20, 2004 Posts: 163 Location: Land of the Tonkawa/Karankawa
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
Cashmere wrote:
I'm advising people not to get caught up thinking there will be any upside to this.
There is no upside - there is only catastrophe, and it's my opinion that thinking about it any other way just makes you less ready, mentally, for what's ahead.
And I'm advising people to move quickly THROUGH what you're describing. Yes, work on understanding deeply the downsides, and get clear on what those will be so that you can be prepared for them. But on the other hand, as some others have mentioned here, for most people that level of stress and depression that focusing solely on the downsides will bring, will bring an unhealthy level of stress and in my experience will lead to inaction. Focusing on the positive will more likely lead to ACTION. It will be something that can keep people going through the hard work ahead. Yes, I think that a load of people are going to die, far far more than others who've posted so far on this thread apparently. But people are going to "shut down" when they think of all the death. Maybe it works for you? I don't know. But will it work for others? Unlikely. _________________ Collapse-prep Intentional Community forming outside of Austin, TX. PM me if interested.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4600 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
He gets it, but like most, he doesn't see the die-off part, or at least isn't willing to write about it. _________________ http://doomsteaddiary.blogspot.com/
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4600 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
AlterEgo wrote:
No, proper midwesterners avoid talk of die-off.
How about talking about how he plans to keep moving Prairie Home Companion's entourage around the US as fuel prices continue to go up? _________________ http://doomsteaddiary.blogspot.com/
Joined: Sep 09, 2004 Posts: 421 Location: Upstate New York, U.S.A.
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:09 am Post subject: Re: One thing lost, something else gained
aflurry wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
thinking about it any other way just makes you less ready, mentally, for what's ahead.
when you drive your car off a cliff, perhaps the absolute least important thing at that time is whether you were "ready" for it.
I'd rather be ready to toss my hook and rope to the tree right as I go over and swing to safety. Good thing, thinking about that hook and rope.
Olaf _________________ "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau
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