Battery powered trucks/big rigs: do-able or not?

hugh-wright · Coal Joined: Aug 27, 2007 Posts: 17

In the 'Current Energy News' forum is a T/B R thread where it is asserted, quite absolutely, that we'll never see battery powered heavy trucks.

As a lorry driver myself (in Sheffield, England), I'm naturally interested in the possibilities; furthurmore, the collapse of the US economy and society due to an inability to transport goods and, in particular, food,-due to diesel cost/shortage- is a common theme of speculation here re. what will happen?

So: is there some particular material reason why heavy trucking rigs cannot be run on batteries?

Rail locos and some pieces of giant mining equipment run with electric motors so it seems reasonable that sufficiently heavy duty motors, switches, cables etc exist and their use is well understood: no research or blue sky developments to wait for there.

I would think that trucks are actually a more amenable platform for battery use than, say, cars; as they are already constructed to carry large masses and they have much larger platforms on which to place the battery packs.

Given a 24 metric tonne battery mass to play with, and a platform 8 metres long, by 2.5m wide, by 3m high to cram it into: could a truck be designed to move a 70 tonne gross train weight rig up to 50 mph? If so: how far between charges, whilst optimising the DOD? How long to recharge?

It would certainly be more costly and less convenient than what we're used to, but is it do-able?

Cashmere · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 1971

Current cost of battery pack to make Prius a plug in hybrid EV that only function to boost MPG to 100 for 30-40 miles?

10 grand.

So even if you could cut that price in half, for 5 grand you're getting peanuts.

Now take a big rig that is the equivalent of 30 priuses.

Right there, 30x5 is 150 grand for the battery pack.

You want the battery pack large enough to get the truck to go 60 MPH for 200 miles?

Probably 300k.

End of story.

Until I see an EV car produced for less than 20 grand with 200 mile range and 55 top speed . . .

It's all just a silly pipe dream.
_________________
Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.

joeltrout · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1317

Correct me if I am wrong but don't the batteries get recharged from stop and go traffic using the brakes?

Most big rigs are cruising the highways where they are not constantly braking to recharge the battery or little to no access to electric plugins.

joeltrout

yesplease · Fission Joined: Oct 03, 2006 Posts: 2552

heroineworshipper

Not practical for the same reason battery powered airliners aren't practical while battery powered models are. Now a battery powered big rig carrying nothing but batteries would be practical for commuting.
_________________
People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement, cannibalism, & zombie invasions.

IslandCrow

Check this out: Smith Electric Vehicles

They have electric trucks already. The problem as has been noted is that they are basically for city use, but they are cool (not least because they are in production and are not just 'concept models').
_________________
We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.

gnm

mkwin · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jun 01, 2007 Posts: 632

I have seen electric trucks on the news. They are already here. As a previous poster mentioned, I am not sure of their carrying capacity or range but they are definately here.

I think we will see a reversion to electric railway haulage for long distance loads anyway with trucks (electric or diesal) making deliveries from these transport nodes.

MrMambo · Heavy Crude Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 170

Nice find! I'we bookmarked it next to the tesla roadster bookmark. The age of EV's are coming faster and faster with each new all time high WTI price.

mos6507

Electric trucks or buses can use more volatile battery chemistries like the Zebrea molten salt ones that are too difficult to thermally isolate in a smaller vehicle. Still, you still can't long haul on battery power alone. Long haul trucking is dead man walking. It has to be replaced by rail.
_________________
As long as I am around, there are no worries we have reached "Peak Words"

--ReverseEngineer

cube · Fusion Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 3811

abelardlindsay

The best thing you could possible do for trucking is getting rigs switched over to a hydraulic hybrid system. That, or having overhead electrical cabling, at least in cities.

http://www.nextenergy.org/industryservices/Hybrid__Hydraulics.asp

hugh-wright · Coal Joined: Aug 27, 2007 Posts: 17

Thanks for all your responses!

Where to begin...?

@ 'Cube': item #3: '10 minute recharge': Trucks are modular. There are 4 obvious ways to quick-change the battery pack:
1,
Run cables from motor to rear of rig (rigid or semi-trailer). Build multiple trailers carrying batteries (that plug into the rear cable sockets); place trailers at appropriately distanced way-stations plugged into chargers: swap trailers on arrival.

2,
Stuff battery pack into a demountable swap-body. Like these
At a way-station: demount depleted pack onto its legs; swap recharge cable from full pack to depleted; mount up full pack and go.

3,
As 2 but swap with lifting gear: http://www.robl.w1.com/obb/I-000838.htm

4,
Use proprietary equipment, as for battery powered fork-lifts.
---------------------------
Apart from the 'Smith' electric trucks: here's a full weight semi-dragger at the Los Angeles docks.

Well... the video won't work. Sad

Why not? Anyway... go to youtube and type 'heavy duty electric truck', and it's there.

It runs on a giant lead-acid battery!! Surprised

Apparently 1 charge will carry 40 tonnes (+or-) for 20-25 miles. Each charge is 140 kwh.

This is fairly poor mileage but a road going diesel tractor would also get very poor mpg on the same work: due to creeping around in low gear all day.

So: electric motors exist that can handle the tonnage; and batteries can be packaged together in boxes, and/or on trailers, that may be swapped out at appropriate points.

It comes down to the price and weight and energy characteristics of the batteries: kwh/kg, Ah, voltage.

The Smith 7.5 tonners reckon to get 130 miles per charge @ 85 kwh, with a 278 volt motor.
They use 4 'ZEBRA' batteries. So 1 ZEBRA = 21.25 kwh @ 200kg.
Here's a pdf with a ZEBRA data sheet: http://www.rolls-royce.com/marine/downloads/submarine/zebra_fact.pdf

The only price info I could find suggests 550Euros/kwh= £454/kwh = $940?/kwh. i.e. £9646 each, $18000ea.?

I found a US firm called 'Valence Technology' that seem to have some cutting edge Li-ion batteries @ 12.8 volts. Essentially the size of car batteries. They boast a life of 2000+ cycles. Surprised

Pdf data here:
http://www.valence.com/assets/pdf/ucharge_rt_data_sheet.pdf

Here: http://www.valence.com/assets/pdf/ucharge_xp_data_sheet.pdf

and here: http://www.valence.com/assets/pdf/vlnc_epoch_data_sheet.pdf

Personally, I find it difficult to make any sense of this stuff: if 4 x ZEBRAs will carry a 7.5 tonne truck 130 miles...8 x will clearly carry it 260 miles. But: will 8 x 'Zs' carry a 15 tonne truck 130 miles?..Will 16 carry a 30 tonner the same?...will 20 get a 40 tonne rig 130-ish miles?

What are the relevant equations?

(Sorry about these pdfs. They were supposed to just be links on a highlighted word. Can a mod sort them out?) ...seems done; cheers. Smile

hugh-wright · Coal Joined: Aug 27, 2007 Posts: 17

@ Heroineworshipper: a battery powered truck carrying nothing but batteries could tow a trailer of payload.
Alternatively: a truck with a few batteries mounted to the chassis for manoevering could cover longer distances by hooking up to and plugging in swappable trailers of battery packs.

@Cube, #1: Why 1/2 the price of lead acid? ZEBRAs work right now and are pricey. The Valence 'Saphion', also pricey, seem to have comparable performance but with a 1/4 greater weight penalty at equal kwh: they claim a 33% greater cycle life though. ( I can't find a price list for the Valence range; the most I could find was a third party statement of $500-$2500 each. If anyone has a price list: put it up.

Cube, #2:Any improvement in energy density is desirable but the present values of 85-111 wh/kg are competitive power suppliers (against diesel) at light weights already. As the price of diesel rises: heavier applications can become 'batterified' due to economic logic.

@joeltrout: the rejenerative braking isn't altogether efficient; it serves to eke out the battery charge a little but they still need to be plugged into a charger each day.

@mos6507: Certainly, rail, river, and costal transport will need to make up the heavy 'skeleton' of the transport system; but you still need to get out from railheads and wharves into the wheat fields with large weight/volume haulage to distribute fertilizer, seed, and pesticides; and to bring in the harvest. This can't be done with little 7.5 tonne battery powered trucks; horse and cart; or anything but big rigs really.....not in the quantities required.

evilgenius