Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
Heineken wrote:
Report on goumis: My two-year-old goumi bushes (obtained from Raintree) are now about five feet high and about the same in width. They flowered well despite a late hard frost and are currently forming zillions of berries. I have two each of two types of goumis: standard (used as a pollinator) and Sweet Scarlet (improved varieties other than Sweet Scarlet are available, but not from Raintree, last time I checked). These plants are fast growers, producing fruit in the second year. They're tough, are almost immune to Japanese beetles (a critical advantage for me), and haven't been bothered by any other pests . . . so far. They're not bad to look at either---green speckled all over with silver. They don't seem to need a lot of water, although I haven't really tested that.
Now we'll see what the fruit is like (I've read that the berries taste like pie cherries, maybe better, when fully ripe, and are extremely nutritious), and whether the birds leave me any.
So far, I continue to highly recommend this almost-unknown fruit bush. I'll report back again when the berries ripen.
I plan to plant goumis too and have just now ordered seeds online. I have read that goumis are self-fertile but that they produce better with two varieties. Do you know what kind of varieties exist? The kind I ordered is simply Elaeagnus multiflora or Japanese Goumi. Is this the standard goumi you planted? Aside from Sweet Scarlet the only other variety I found is Red Gem from One Green World. I'm wondering how necessary it is to plant two varieties - I've been having trouble finding any goumi at all here in Canada.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4925 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
Anyone know if a sour cherry is a slow grower? I've had mine in for 2 months now and it still hasn't done a thing. Just sits there. The leaves are still green, so i doubt its dead. The other sour (Meteor) also did the same thing, but a week or so ago started growing again...so i hope it was just transplant shock or something.
Those goumis look very interesting.
I'll be very interested in your take on them. I use to not like blueberries, but now i love them. Pretty much like any berry. Love almost every tropical fruit i've tried. _________________ Clothing should be optional.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
OK, I have some additional comments about goumis.
First, the only supplier I've obtained them from is Raintree (located in Washington State). The only varieties they offer (last I checked) are Sweet Scarlet and the standard pollinator. I don't know anything about other varieties or other sources.
My opinion of goumis has headed downward. Although the plants grow very well---almost too well---the berries this year on my two Sweet Scarlet bushes were few (either that or the birds have discovered them). It's possible that they'll do alternate-year heavy crops, since I got more berries the year before even though the bushes were smaller.
The berries are about the size of a blueberry, but more oblong-shaped. They contain a large seed, unfortunately. The flavor is more acidic than sweet. It's a tart, not unpleasant flavor, but it won't have you raving. They are just barely worth eating out-of-hand, I'd say.
It might be possible to harvest large numbers of berries and turn them into juice. You'd have to strain out the seeds and add a sweetener and maybe some water.
These comments apply to the Sweet Scarlet variety. The berries of the pollinator are more numerous but smaller, and may not warrant picking. They ripen much later.
If you decide to try goumis, give the bushes a lot of space or be prepared to prune heavily. I had to cut back my "standard" bushes; they were over eight feet tall and starting to crowd an adjacent plum tree.
Japanese beetles, I discovered, actually do eat a fair number of leaves but do not seem to affect fruit production.
Goumis add nitrogen to soil---always a plus. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13179 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
One Green World, alternative source of a couple goumi varieties.
Thanks for that review, Heineken. I might plant more here and there, because they seem pretty darn drought-tolerant, but I won't depend on them for tasty food. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
They do seem drought-tolerant, Ludi.
If you don't mind feeding the birds, they're probably worth the expense and effort. (And I love birds!) _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 1257 Location: Big Rock Candy Mountain
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
Autumn Olive is much more productive than any variety of goumi. It is in the same nitrogen-fixing genus, so plant instead of goumi if you want lots of fruit.
Aronia doesn't produce much but will grow even in standing water where few fruits will. It is very high in antioxidants, but quite sour. Also check out One Green World's Dwarf Shipova grafted into aronia rootstock.
Something I've recently found out: Pluots (75% Plum x 25% Apricot) will readily root from hardwood cuttings. Of course, propagating patented plants is ILLEGAL, so the above information is for education only.
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 1257 Location: Big Rock Candy Mountain
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
Autumn Olive is much more productive than any variety of goumi. It is in the same nitrogen-fixing genus, so plant instead of goumi if you want lots of fruit.
Aronia doesn't produce much but will grow even in standing water where few fruits will. It is very high in antioxidants, but quite sour. Also check out One Green World's Dwarf Shipova grafted into aronia rootstock.
Something I've recently found out: Pluots (75% Plum x 25% Apricot) will readily root from hardwood cuttings. Of course, propagating patented plants is ILLEGAL, so the above information is for education only.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
oowolf wrote:
Autumn Olive is much more productive than any variety of goumi. It is in the same nitrogen-fixing genus, so plant instead of goumi if you want lots of fruit.
That is good to know, thank you. Do the fruits taste like goumi also? Are Autumn Olive and goumi closely enough related that they will cross pollinate? (I'm wondering if I can plant one goumi and one AU, rather than 2 goumis).
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 1257 Location: Big Rock Candy Mountain
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
Fruits aren't all that great tasting IMO, but interplanting Elaeagnus species with fruit trees can increase yields by 10% AND THE FRUITS ARE VERY HIGH IN LYCOPENE. Different species are not known to cross-pollinate. E. umbellata is self fertile and HIGHLY INVASIVE (may be banned in some areas).
Joined: Sep 04, 2005 Posts: 445 Location: central MA, USA
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
oowolf wrote:
E. umbellata is self fertile and HIGHLY INVASIVE (may be banned in some areas).
That's a big 10-4, good buddy. I hate E. umbellata. The Massachusetts D.O.T. saw fit to plant the stuff in the space between divided highways around here. Birds love the fruit. Hence, the seedlings come up everywhere. They leaf out early and crowd out many smaller native species of shrubs.
Smells lovely in bloom. Is very hardy. Grows quickly. Is an incredibly prolific fruiter. So I can understand why they planted it.
Joined: Dec 25, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Hillsboro, West Virginia
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Trees
frankthetank wrote:
Anyone know if a sour cherry is a slow grower? I've had mine in for 2 months now and it still hasn't done a thing. Just sits there. The leaves are still green, so i doubt its dead. The other sour (Meteor) also did the same thing, but a week or so ago started growing again...so i hope it was just transplant shock or something.
I have some sour cherry trees. They don't all bear the same amount in any year, and the same tree might not bear equally heavily in all years. This year, one of my trees was loaded, while the tree next to it had only a half dozen. The cherries start to ripen in the first week of summer, and beware because the birds who like to peck on cherries will show up promptly. One of the scoundrels arrived today and had pecked four cherries before I chased him off and took the rest for myself.
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