Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
mos6507 wrote:
Ayoob wrote:
Or you could do what people have done for thousands of years. Bring a rifle and claim some property. A deed is just a piece of paper.
-1
Sorry, that is the ethos of the zombie.
Ask 52 million Native Americans how it worked.
It's how the West was won. Look back at this thread. People are offering the next generation a shot at sharecropping. Are you kidding me? No thanks. I'd rather take my chances. I'm not going to be a sharecropper, bud.
Whatever you have, it's only yours if you can keep it.
Joined: May 27, 2008 Posts: 74 Location: middle of the USA
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
Ayoob wrote:
Ask 52 million Native Americans how it worked.
It's how the West was won. Look back at this thread. People are offering the next generation a shot at sharecropping. Are you kidding me? No thanks. I'd rather take my chances. I'm not going to be a sharecropper, bud.
Whatever you have, it's only yours if you can keep it.
It's an open question how well the rule of law will hold up. Obviously I am choosing to have both a good title to the land and the means to defend the land.
I really don't think many zombies are going to be successful long term. If the police don't exist or are ineffective there will be citizens' vigilantes banding together. Your chances will be much better if you own land and have some plan for survival that doesn't include killing or stealing.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
HappyFace wrote:
JPL wrote:
Ainan wrote:
Many people on PO have brought homesteads or own a rural property. Lucky them. But what of us young people? I'm in my early 20s, 2 years to finish University, after which i plan to emigrate from the UK(deathtrap and downright depressing) to probably New Zealand.
My problem is once i get there I will have little money and working in a doomed career(IT). How can someone in my position ever afford a homestead, own a property or even a piece of land before we start to see real economic upheaval? Middle aged people are lucky enough to have a fixed abode to stockpile some goods and more importantly money locked up in their properties giving them the opportunity to move where necessary.
What is a person in my position to do? Is anyone else in my position? We no longer live in the age of pioneers, when you could just move to virgin land and claim it for yourself. All the land is owned by someone, even if it is unused by them, you must work for several years just so you can buy it. Do you know of any western nations where land is cheap and plentiful? Is Australia a good place to emigrate too?
Sorry if i sound too doomerish, just been one of those days.
In remoter parts of the British Isles there are abandoned communities and land that once supported many people.
Even as far south as Yorkshire you will find abandoned farmsteads that were just too remote from power & roads to be 'viable' (whatever that is???) in the latter 20'th century.
Search & ye shall find...
JP
There's a good reason those villages were abandoned. Look at the land. It has been stripped bare down to the gravel. Nothing will live there anymore. It's gonna take a 1,000 years for the soil to return. Those hills were once covered with forests.
They don't call us a country of gardeners for nothing. Its fertile land and you can always import topsoil. Lots of people seem to be successful in growing trees there. I'm looking into Orkney as a real possibility for my future. £30k on the mainland will get you a caravan spot in a bad area during a recession, maybe... _________________ April 2008 Global Population: 6.8 billion
April 2010 Global Population: 7 billion
April 2012 Global Population: 7.2 billion
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
Ainan wrote:
They don't call us a country of gardeners for nothing. Its fertile land and you can always import topsoil. Lots of people seem to be successful in growing trees there. I'm looking into Orkney as a real possibility for my future. £30k on the mainland will get you a caravan spot in a bad area during a recession, maybe...
What would worry me is that folk with a strong community network, generations of farming experience and knowledge of local conditions have seen fit to abandon this land; what hope would I have as a mere keen gardener?
Quote:
Even as far south as Yorkshire you will find abandoned farmsteads that were just too remote from power & roads to be 'viable' (whatever that is???) in the latter 20'th century.
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1264 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
kellan1776 wrote:
Is that really true? How much is land going for in the English countryside? Or how much are small farmsteads going for? I heard that Prince Charles owns tens of thousands of acres. Maybe time for him to give up some of that land.
This is a web-site for rural property sales in the UK. Bear in mind that a decent wage for a working man in the countryside is going to £20k max and you have an idea of the problem.
BTW last time I looked the wanabee Charles III was selling off selected bits for millions of squids as well so don't expect the 'aristos to come to anyones rescue...
JP _________________ I see a dark sail on the horizon
set under a black cloud that hides the sun.
Bring me my broadsword and clear understanding.
Bring me my cross of gold as a talisman.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
Ainan wrote:
They don't call us a country of gardeners for nothing. Its fertile land and you can always import topsoil. Lots of people seem to be successful in growing trees there. I'm looking into Orkney as a real possibility for my future. £30k on the mainland will get you a caravan spot in a bad area during a recession, maybe...
So where would you import soil from? _________________ This is not me
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1264 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
[quote="energycity"]
What would worry me is that folk with a strong community network, generations of farming experience and knowledge of local conditions have seen fit to abandon this land; what hope would I have as a mere keen gardener?
[quote]
The land was viable & the fishing was good. The people left, not because they wanted to because they were forced to.
"The consternation and confusion were extreme. Little or no time was given for the removal of persons or property; the people striving to remove the sick and the helpless before the fire should reach them; next, struggling to save the most valuable of their effects. The cries of the women and children, the roaring of the affrighted cattle, hunted at the same time by the yelling dogs of the shepherds amid the smoke and fire, altogether presented a scene that completely baffles description — it required to be seen to be believed.
This is one of many untold stories of the poor people of Britian which is why so many had to emigrate, or else leave their land and be forced into factories & rabbit-hutches.
JP _________________ I see a dark sail on the horizon
set under a black cloud that hides the sun.
Bring me my broadsword and clear understanding.
Bring me my cross of gold as a talisman.
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1264 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
Ainan wrote:
They don't call us a country of gardeners for nothing. Its fertile land and you can always import topsoil. Lots of people seem to be successful in growing trees there. I'm looking into Orkney as a real possibility for my future. £30k on the mainland will get you a caravan spot in a bad area during a recession, maybe...
Even if the house fell down, rebuilding using some of the permaculture techniques such as shelter breaks and also earth-shelter housing etc, it's a tempting prospect, isn't it?
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
JPL wrote:
The land was viable & the fishing was good. The people left, not because they wanted to because they were forced to.
Highland Clearances
Quote:
"The consternation and confusion were extreme. Little or no time was given for the removal of persons or property; the people striving to remove the sick and the helpless before the fire should reach them; next, struggling to save the most valuable of their effects. The cries of the women and children, the roaring of the affrighted cattle, hunted at the same time by the yelling dogs of the shepherds amid the smoke and fire, altogether presented a scene that completely baffles description — it required to be seen to be believed.
This is one of many untold stories of the poor people of Britian which is why so many had to emigrate, or else leave their land and be forced into factories & rabbit-hutches.
JP
A point well made. I need to look into it. Forgive my ignorance.
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1264 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
Ainan wrote:
@JPL: Any more information on Scottish islands would be great, are you Scottish?
He he, I'm a Cornishman, as it happens. My tale is long & complicated & also involves 'IT' & is probably quite boring (grin). I currently live in France & am moving back to the UK this year with my wife & 3 kids.
My personal plans are my own but they 'might' involve some of the stuff we've talked about - we shall see (grin).
JP _________________ I see a dark sail on the horizon
set under a black cloud that hides the sun.
Bring me my broadsword and clear understanding.
Bring me my cross of gold as a talisman.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
Daphne64,
Look first at how to earn a living where you plan to relocate. Cheap rural properties tend to be cheap because of the very limited jobs in the area. Making a move can be a financial disaster if you don't have ongoing income. You only last until your stake runs out.
We made such a move, from a high income area to a low income area back in the late 1970's. But, I had managed a job transfer with GM and retained my salary and time-in-grade. A few years later, I managed to get another good job just before GM hit a hard spot in 1980. It was touch-and-go at that, but with a good income, an inheritance that finished paying off the mortgage, and 10 years of hard work, we built a homestead.
Be careful to not minimize the need for money beyond the purchase price of a farm property, since that is just the beginning of expenses. I like some of the others' advice here to Ainan, to move to an area where you find a job, learn about it, then buy. There are too many pitfalls otherwise! We knew the area where we bought, from growing up here, or we'd have been another casualty of this process.
edit: Afterthought. Another advantage we used was the sale of a home in an inflated area, like Pops did, then moving to a more depressed area where acreage was much cheaper. Please note that it works going in that direction, but could break you trying to go back to the high priced area! _________________ Local fix-it guy..
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
HappyFace wrote:
Ainan wrote:
They don't call us a country of gardeners for nothing. Its fertile land and you can always import topsoil. Lots of people seem to be successful in growing trees there. I'm looking into Orkney as a real possibility for my future. £30k on the mainland will get you a caravan spot in a bad area during a recession, maybe...
So where would you import soil from?
The mainland. Economic collapse permitting. Many members of my family have paid for tons and tons of topsoil brought in on a lorry. One site i just checked is £85 per ton.
JPL wrote:
Even if the house fell down, rebuilding using some of the permaculture techniques such as shelter breaks and also earth-shelter housing etc, it's a tempting prospect, isn't it?
JP
Very much so. _________________ April 2008 Global Population: 6.8 billion
April 2010 Global Population: 7 billion
April 2012 Global Population: 7.2 billion
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Homesteads - Only for the Rich
Patience is too right! The bad thing about Patience being right is, that we're not back in the 70th and there is very few time left, I guess, things are going bad very quickly at the moment.
The only thing I can think of is buying a real cheap piece of land and staying were you are, working and trying to develop the land in your vacations. Don't know if that is realistic, the trees you plant might die, because you cannot water or kangaroos will eat you small trees ...
Real cheap, because you must live somewhere else meanwhile and have the costs of renting or mortgaging.
You must have a train connection as petrol gets more expensive.
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