Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
TonyPrep wrote:
When will you get it through your head, Monte, that I don't think it likely that the world will make the necessary changes, or in time. If you agree with that, then just agree, instead of attacking every opinion I have on the matter. Absolutely nothing you've written demonstrates that my opinion is wrong. My view is almost indistinguishable from yours, apart from your unswerving belief that no actions, no matter what it is or how likely it is, could avert die-off. From what you've written, that is pure belief, regardless of whether others (some of whom you quote) share it.
It is pure science!
No one, and I mean no one in the field of ecology or biology disputes that die-off does not follow overshoot. Only those who do not understand the concepts.
Die-off can sometimes be avoided when a species exceeds the carrying capacity, but not when it overshoots by billions of individuals. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
MonteQuest wrote:
MrBean wrote:
I've read what was pasted here and commented that. Based on what I read, Catton does not know about no-till farming which disproves his claim about need for animals to plow the land and need for more land to feed the animals.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1497 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
MrBean wrote:
I've read what was pasted here and commented that. Based on what I read, Catton does not know about no-till farming which disproves his claim about need for animals to plow the land and need for more land to feed the animals.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
vetusfirma wrote:
Monte: I really don't like your arrogant and hautey and elietst manner.
It sure isn't my nature. Must be due to the ignorant responses I get.
Why are people in such denial of science and reality? _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
MrBean wrote:
Denial of what?
Reality. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
MonteQuest wrote:
vetusfirma wrote:
Monte: I really don't like your arrogant and hautey and elietst manner.
It sure isn't my nature. Must be due to the ignorant responses I get.
Why are people in such denial of science and reality?
If you wish to influence opinion and knowledge of the ramifications of peak oil, in particular relation to food security, you really must develop your debating technique. My position on this subject is probably about the same as yours. However, it does no service to the cause of spreading this incredibly important message if people are put off debating the issue at the start of their journet of understanding.
I should readily admit, though, it is incredibly frustrating when having to go over the same fundamental points with people. In this regard, you have my sympathy. However, to reiterate, if it is your intention to educate by contributing to forums such as this, you will serve to only defeat that objective without a more concilliatory debating tone.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13179 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
stevecook172001 wrote:
if it is your intention to educate by contributing to forums such as this, you will serve to only defeat that objective without a more concilliatory debating tone.
How would you yourself address some of the counterpoints people have made in this thread? _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
stevecook172001 wrote:
However, to reiterate, if it is your intention to educate by contributing to forums such as this, you will serve to only defeat that objective without a more concilliatory debating tone.
I have been posting here for almost 4 years. Read my earlier posts. I used to be more patient.
I am not anymore, especially to ignorance with no excuse. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1198 Location: Central NC
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
stevecook172001 wrote:
MonteQuest wrote:
vetusfirma wrote:
Monte: I really don't like your arrogant and hautey and elietst manner.
It sure isn't my nature. Must be due to the ignorant responses I get.
Why are people in such denial of science and reality?
If you wish to influence opinion and knowledge of the ramifications of peak oil, in particular relation to food security, you really must develop your debating technique. My position on this subject is probably about the same as yours. However, it does no service to the cause of spreading this incredibly important message if people are put off debating the issue at the start of their journet of understanding.
I should readily admit, though, it is incredibly frustrating when having to go over the same fundamental points with people. In this regard, you have my sympathy. However, to reiterate, if it is your intention to educate by contributing to forums such as this, you will serve to only defeat that objective without a more concilliatory debating tone.
That is rich coming from a guy who hasn't been on the forum as many months as MQ has been on here for years. Hang around though and add what you can to the debate. _________________ "The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
As always, my pm's run 99 to 1 in favor of my patience.
Quote:
Monte, I admire your patience. Some days, I despair ever having such a skill.....sigh...
_________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
MonteQuest wrote:
I have been posting here for almost 4 years. Read my earlier posts. I used to be more patient.
I totally feel you on that one MQ. I actually admire you for your tenacity. I don't know how many times the last few months I've started to reply to something and then just linked away instead. It just gets old.
Pearls before swine... _________________ Cougar
"Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." - Brigham Young
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4590 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
MonteQuest wrote:
As always, my pm's run 99 to 1 in favor of my patience.
Quote:
Monte, I admire your patience. Some days, I despair ever having such a skill.....sigh...
Patience is one way to say it.
Monte is like Yul Brynner in Westworld, but instead of saying "Draw" he says "Die-off". Cold, dispassionate, single-minded, amd above all, relentless. Just like the invisble hand.
Joined: Dec 25, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Hillsboro, West Virginia
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: How to be a MISANTHROPIC DOOMBAT, Lesson 1.
Monte has the science. Jack has the attitude. Watch the die-off while enjoying hot buttered popcorn. And no sharing, please. Words of wisdom, good advice. It's what I plan to do. You can enliven your viewing experience by periodically doing the Peak Oil version of the Charge Chant. It goes...
DEATH death death death
DEATH death death death
death death death death
death death death death
Ta da da DA ta DAAA! DIE!
Or you can sing Peak Oil caroles, such as the ever-popular
Death to the World
The food is gone
The Earth becomes a grave!
The fearful faint of heart
Can see approaching doom
Let Heaven and Nature wail
As humans try and fail
To stay fed and warmed
And out of jail!
Or...
Peak Oil was so fateful
Nature is triumphant
Die off ye deluded ones and fade from the world
God's own IQ test
Spares the smart and kills the rest
I've got myself a sack of food
No dinner guests - I must be rude!
I have a gun, the barrel's blued
A lock's on the door!
Motto of the 2020 US Olympic Starvation Team: Morituri te salutamus. (In this event, you win the gold medal by dying last. Contestants who eat their fingers are disqualified.)
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 166 Location: Metro-East Illinois
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: 6,000,000,000 die-off
I do not disagree with die-off as a consequence of peak-oil. My question is can an individual country mitigate the effects of it on a more localized scale. We have roughly 300 million people in the USA. In 1900 we had a pre-oil country of 76,000,000.
Could we in any way mitigate the die-off so that our population would settle back in at a pre-oil USA population or are we doomed to going a lot further back then that?
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