Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Yes, they are ignoring the most important issue of our time.
53%
[ 43 ]
No, the people have enough to deal with in their lives
22%
[ 18 ]
I'm too busy shopping to deal with this poll.
2%
[ 2 ]
Peak Oil I'm just trying live from day to day!
5%
[ 4 ]
Its the oil companies they have plenty of oil!
0%
[ 0 ]
I'm too busy stockpiling weapons, food and ammo.
8%
[ 7 ]
Don't you watch TV everyone says oil prices will come down.
7%
[ 6 ]
It's the liberals we have plenty of oil in Alaska!
0%
[ 0 ]
Total Votes : 80
Author
Message
vetusfirma Heavy Crude
Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 219 Location: West KC
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Are people outside of Peak Oil just dumb?
some_math_guy wrote:
Jerry, sounds like you have things well in hand in your neck of the woods. That's great. I would hazard a guess that you are in your 50's, have either no kids or grown-up kids, right? Possibly single?
Virtually every student of the modern education system has left college/university with a huge debt, under the assumption that there will be 10 good working years to pay it back and then 25 more years of making substantially more income than an uneducated person. As Colin Campbell has put it so elequently, the basis of our society for the past 50 years has been that tomorrow's assumed growth and prosperity is adequate collateral for today's debt, and in that climate things like 30-year mortgages (or 40, or 50) and student loans that hang around your neck for a third of your working life are normal and ok, and therefore most people have bought into them. My guess is that many people in the western world could not substantially change their personal circumstances now given even 5 years advance notice of peak oil - and if they did en masse, the economy would have collapsed long ago because it assumes high and constantly increasing levels of consumption.
I guess my point is that one needs to be not only a revolutionary thinker and a very strong, self-motivated person, but also fortunate enough to have favorable personal circumstances in order to break out of the mold of modern life in the face of peak oil. I think many folks (in fact most people under 40 that I know) simply do not have that luxury at this time. Most of their cards were laid on the table years ago (kids, houses, debts) and now there are just a few cards left to be played.
Boomers, who enjoyed most of the world's oil endowment and consequently now own the bulk of society's assets, ironically now have fewer financial obligations and more personal freedom to navigate the peak oil maelstrom. The 'Generation-Xer's' who came on-stream later in the oil story have far fewer assets, higher debt levels, significant familial obligations, and little time to improve their situations before things become very difficult. They are undoubtably going to have a much more difficult time of it. As for the Millennium generation, with no assets besides electronics and clothes, little apparent work ethic, and poor prospects of enjoying future prosperity in the face of permanently falling standards of living....take a look at the typical 15-25 year old Saudi Arabian for a reflection of that reality.
Interesting analysis. I would think that the 'boomer's' would have more of responsibility for their Xer's than you credit. I am making plans and preparations for all my kids and grandkids. What is the point if you don't. Why would anyone want to 'make it through' if their kids and grandkids didn't. Give us boomer's a little more credit. _________________ HOLDING THE CENTER
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Are people outside of Peak Oil just dumb?
I agree with some_math_guy.
Individuals, because of their financial situation (loans / mortgage), have very limited options to make an impact. The best I could do as an individual is to trade my SUV for a Prius and make some other similar lifestyle changes. Most people don't even have this liberty. They are still paying for the SUV they are driving. More then being dumb they are being squeezed.
The time for Government to make an impact was 8 years ago. Those policies would have shown results today. It is too late for the current administration to do anything and too early for the new one. Hence the beaurocrats are looking the other ways. They are also cornered.
The only people who can make a difference are big corporations such a Ford and GM. Seems like they would rather go out of business than make a sane business decision. I believe their decisions were driven by greed (huge profit margins on SUVs). My guess is thatthey behavior was driven by the shareholders.
In other words it is a flaw in the economic structure to expect exponential growth in a world with limited resources.
I am personally impressed by people like Muhammad Yunus of Bangladesh. He has made a difference by choosing an economic model which focussed on human prosperity as opposed to corporate profits. What the society needs is more people like him who have a vision and willing to dedicate thier lives to a cause.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13179 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Are people outside of Peak Oil just dumb?
zakkapoor wrote:
Individuals, because of their financial situation (loans / mortgage), have very limited options to make an impact. The best I could do as an individual is to trade my SUV for a Prius and make some other similar lifestyle changes.
Here's a website about what some individuals can do:
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 1190 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Are people outside of Peak Oil just dumb?
Ayoob wrote:
A lot of peakniks think of themselves as superior because they picked up on the topic early or recognized its significance early. I think a much better indication of how dumb you are would be how you're fairing after the second halving time. How much use of this information have you made? How have you adapted? What challenges have you overcome? What value do you bring to the table now that you've been sooooo ahead of the game for years and years?
I wonder what the self-entitled elite have to say. Most of what I read is "there is nothing you can do. Quit your obsession with fixing it. We're doomed."
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 1190 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Are people outside of Peak Oil just dumb?
zakkapoor wrote:
The best I could do as an individual is to trade my SUV for a Prius and make some other similar lifestyle changes.
Hang on, zak. Don't under estimate the power of a good brain storming. You can move to within bicycle distance to work, you can pay your debts, you can help a sibling get it, etc. Just let me know.
Glad you like that also. It's surely inspirational. I need to take a trip down to Pasadena and see it for real before I leave SoCal. The GardenGirl who's been posting here lives in the Boston area and I'd like to visit her place too after I move--if she didn't mind. _________________ http://doomsteaddiary.blogspot.com/
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 Posts: 163 Location: missouri
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Are people outside of Peak Oil just dumb?
Well there's another type of group that doesn't get it. They are the ones I hear saying that there is enough oil in Alaska to last us for the next 200 years if only the environmentalists would ease up and let them pump it. They "know" it's there because they know someone who's an engineer or something. Of they claim that it is getting drilled but sold to the Chinese. These guys are even harder to get thru to because they want so much to believe it.
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Are people outside of Peak Oil just dumb?
You'd do well not to even bother with those types of people. They're the types of people that will be rioting in the streets and protesting the government all the way up until the bitter end under the notion that everything that is happening is all deliberately engineered.
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: Re: Are people outside of Peak Oil just dumb?
[quote="Jenab6"]
mefistofeles wrote:
Maybe this isn't a very I'd go ahead and identify which ethnic group comprises nearly all of the media bosses, but, if I did, I'd invoke yet another taboo which the media bosses have had a major part in creating and promulgating, and the result would be, on the part of some of you here, an irrational opposition based mostly on the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.
So, no, lots of the people who ought to be raising an outcry over the significance of Peak Oil, but who are not doing so, are not stupid. They are behaving in accordance with their conditioning. As do most people, most of the time.
Jerry Abbott
Ok we get by now you are racist that was molested in office politics and plans to survive Peak oil by trading your apples with other peasants once when mad max scenario kicks in while reading all the best sci-fi novells ( probably the ones written by Ron Hubbard )
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Are people outside of Peak Oil just dumb?
Buggy,
I agree with you about the lack of knowledge. Folks can miss discovering the facts for a variety of reasons: avoidence, lazyness, mislead by authorities they trust, etc.
Perhaps the biddest problem is their perception that they already know the answer and don't need to waste time listening to other views. I daily teach some very educated people about a particular technology. The common first response is "I already understand the deal". After they are forced (yes...they really feel I'm wasting their time) to hear what I have to show them the typical response is "I didn't know that...now it makes sense".
Just a part of human nature. Thank God I have complete control of my ego.
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