Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 318 Location: Houston, TX
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
I am having hard time believing end of food. With all the advances in genetics (GMO), we will always have cheap food but not necessarily good food.
I am heading towards "sweet tomatoes" after this, I got 2 for 1 coupon which is like $4/person all you can eat. Unbelievable cheap. How can it get cheaper than that?
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
Micki wrote:
A thought that I have played with; Assuming we want to avoid die-off, why don't people or councils etc plant edible food just about everywhere.
I mean they plant trees and flowers etc. Couldn't at least 50% of all this be edible stuff? Sidewalks could be lined with lettuce and pumpkin and in the parks there could be fruit trees and berry bushes etc.
Maybe I haven't thought this through properly and someone will quickly correct me, but aren't things the way they are just because food is an industry and councils/governments haven't wanted to take away their business by providing free food?
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13179 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
threadbear wrote:
Micki wrote:
A thought that I have played with; Assuming we want to avoid die-off, why don't people or councils etc plant edible food just about everywhere.
I mean they plant trees and flowers etc. Couldn't at least 50% of all this be edible stuff? Sidewalks could be lined with lettuce and pumpkin and in the parks there could be fruit trees and berry bushes etc.
Maybe I haven't thought this through properly and someone will quickly correct me, but aren't things the way they are just because food is an industry and councils/governments haven't wanted to take away their business by providing free food?
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 2019 Location: Australia
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
HA! Guerilla farming was the term that I thought of a number of months ago when I started planting seeds etc in a park outside my property.
Or I should say darn, as I thought I came up with something original. Anyway really good to see that others are doing this. _________________ It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" - Nancy Pelosi
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
back to Micky: you live in Australia nice and warm. I don't expect the government to do anything, in Brisbane the're still building roads to fight congestion!
We planted a fruit and a nut tree on our footpath - until now nothing happened. The council guy dropped a post card month ago, that we should remove the trees that they can plant something appropriate for
our street (these trees are very ugly) but at least one is a native a Macadamia.
We try to do a bit of guerilla gardening. always go out with some seeds in your pocket, that what you get for free, pumpkins, papayas, passionfruit.
We can start heaps of seedling trees for free only using the seeds of what we eat. But this does not really work with most northern orchard fruits like apples. We should think of planting plenty of nut trees.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
I'm sorry, but some of you don't know what you're talking about.
You can't just wander around like Johnny Appleseed, throwing down pumpkin seeds, and expect to get anything.
In general, growing plants that yield food for human consumption and actually getting food out of them requires special conditions and focused, sustained effort. You get out of it what you put into it. If you're lucky.
Also: don't count on the seeds of that apple or canteloupe you're eating to yield fruit that resembles what you ate. Instead, the fruit may be inferior or absent. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
Hate to rain on your doomer parade Cid, but there are 400 million acres of arable land in the United States. That' more than 1 acre per person. Lot's O' Food for everyone Very little of our national energy budget actually goes to growing food. While we use copious quantities to process and deliver the junk, the ingredients are energy cheap. Grain for everyone!
You'll get you mush in the morning, your gruel at lunch, and a big steamy Pot O' porridge at dinner. It'll be okay. _________________ This is not me
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13179 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
Heineken wrote:
You get out of it what you put into it. If you're lucky.
This has been my personal experience also. Some climates do seem suited for guerilla gardening, but mine isn't one of them. Those interested in guerilla gardening should give it a try before they may need to depend on it, and see how it works for them. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
misterno wrote:
I am having hard time believing end of food. With all the advances in genetics (GMO), we will always have cheap food but not necessarily good food.
I am heading towards "sweet tomatoes" after this, I got 2 for 1 coupon which is like $4/person all you can eat. Unbelievable cheap. How can it get cheaper than that?
And yes there is always a coupon somewhere
It has nothing to do with genetics (tm) as that is techtopian crap foisted on us by big grain conglomerates and industrial agri-business to hide the fact of their monopoly domination over the American food production. They control the supply an delivery lines. Just like war
Your food abundance has everything to do with cheap petroleum, irrigation, field processing, preservatives, packaging, marketing, just-in-time delivery, convenience stores, and microwaves. Without all this you will still have access to the original grain food-stock so that you don't riot. _________________ This is not me
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
Micki wrote:
A thought that I have played with; Assuming we want to avoid die-off, why don't people or councils etc plant edible food just about everywhere.
I mean they plant trees and flowers etc. Couldn't at least 50% of all this be edible stuff? Sidewalks could be lined with lettuce and pumpkin and in the parks there could be fruit trees and berry bushes etc.
Maybe I haven't thought this through properly and someone will quickly correct me, but aren't things the way they are just because food is an industry and councils/governments haven't wanted to take away their business by providing free food?
Perhaps birds, bugs, insects, slugs, snails and other organisms like to tuck into this edible stuff.
Then you would have to harvest this and try and sell it? Thats not even considering things such as fertilizer, frost, watering etc..
Farming is not easy. _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13179 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
Concerned wrote:
Then you would have to harvest this and try and sell it?
I think the big idea behind guerilla gardening is the food is free, it's there for anyone who finds it.
This is what some people call "unlocking the food," the idea is that many of our societal/cultural problems are found in the fact that our food is owned, locked up, unlike food in wild nature or non-civilized cultures where the food is available to anyone in the community to gather it (and in fact, one is expected to gather ones own food unless one is a baby or a very old person). _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
Cid_Yama wrote:
While in college, I spent my summers riding freight trains around the country. It's a lot of fun, even(especially) if you are not going anywhere in particular. You get to see a lot of America where there are no roads.
Prehaps you can write about it in your blog? I would love to hear more. _________________ April 2008 Global Population: 6.8 billion
April 2010 Global Population: 7 billion
April 2012 Global Population: 7.2 billion
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 2019 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
Ludi, that was exactly my idea.
And although animals and insects eat some, and some won't bear fruits etc. Then it comes down to quantity. The more we plant the more chance some bear fruit. (Not planting in the same spot, spreading out) Especially places with good rains should have reasonable chance of success.
And I see some success better than none.
if we use seeds that we get from what we eat, it is free to try. So nothing to lose from giving it a shot. _________________ It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" - Nancy Pelosi
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: The empire of cheap food is crumbling
misterno wrote:
I am having hard time believing end of food. With all the advances in genetics (GMO), we will always have cheap food but not necessarily good food.
I am heading towards "sweet tomatoes" after this, I got 2 for 1 coupon which is like $4/person all you can eat. Unbelievable cheap. How can it get cheaper than that?
And yes there is always a coupon somewhere
GM manipulations will not increase yields of photosynthesis because atmospheric concentration of CO2 is unsurmountable limiting factor here.
GM efforts are directed towards better pesticide resistance, but perhaps they will also try to improve actual pest resistance by this approach.
Other areas of interest of GM is to control seed supply and produce uniform plants easy for machine farming and of suitable properties required by industrial food processing industry.
It is at least in theory possible to produce GM varieties, which don't need nitrogen fertilizer.
However phosphorus fertilizer will always be needed and potassium fertilizer will also be needed.
Because raw materials for phosphorus fertilizer are already post peak our food supply is bound to crumble pretty soon.
GM will not address problems of soil depletion either...
Without cheap oil farming will also become incredibly labor intensive again.
So yes, there will not be enough food pretty soon.
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