Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
I'm sorry to be the party pooper here, but the cost of algae ponds and photobioreactors is just way to high to make mass production economic.
If you actually read the Aquatic Species Program, you find very disappointing yields for algae grown in open ponds. I've had a long talk with Mike Briggs about this, and he admits that it's more of an engineering problem than a 'biology' problem, since the algae in themselves can be quite productive under the right circumstances.
He's one of many who's trying to overcome these challenges, but there's not much room for improvement. If one decides to go along with the open pond system, one needs greenhouses, and these are costly, even if you succeed in creating an automated system which puts the greenhouses in place (a company is working on such a system, but the materials costs for the ponds are simply too high - be they polymers or cement). Photobioreactors are even more uneconomical.
For the time being, growing traditional oil crops like rapeseed and palm are much more feasible.
Of course things may change once oil prices go up. And coupling photobioreactors to coal fired electricity production plants makes sense, because it would be difficult to grow traditional oil crops which would feed off the CO2 streams there.
I doubt whether this technology will ever be implemented on a massive scale though.
Yes the material costs are expensive. Building the greenhouses are expensive.
Not doing anything is VERY DARN EXPENSIVE!
It seems like if the infrastructure could be built, through a MASSIVE MANHATTAN-LIKE PROJECT, to get these algae ponds built, then our economy could instantly benefit.
I SEE NO BETTER USE FOR OUR TAX-PAYER MONEY. BUILD SOME PONDS OR WORLD WAR III with China, Iran, North Korea, etc. in the FUTURE. Which is MORE COSTLY???
The algae ponds, besides upfront costs, are the best SOLUTION, I see.
Yes it would take 3 cities worth of concrete to FUEL ALL AMERICA.
Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will these three cities worth of ALGAE!
Building enough ponds for 5% of our fuel needs would be a great start. This would be enough to replace the future Alaska National Wildlife Reserve oil. Then we could build enough for 10%, etc.
Benefits:
1)American jobs
2)Once again NO farmland is required, to compete with current crops.
3)We could use coal and natural gas for PLASTICS, FERTILIZERS, and powering our homes, instead of our CARS, like is being talked about.
4)Trade deficit evaporates very quickly
5)Americans and the world can continue their love affairs with cars:)
6)The ALGAE would allow us to BRIDGE the gap to future renewables, like Hydrogen from Windmills, etc.
7)The EMISSIONS from Algae biodiesel, would NOT ADD TO our CO2 emissions, because, that CO2 would be only temporarily back in the air, until it is absorbed into future algae grown. The algae would be a CARBON SINK.
8)Reduced dependency on the ARAB world.
9)It COULD SAVE THE WORLD:)
What other technology out there currently, could be ramped up, in a 10 year period, enough to have all these benefits??
I SEE NONE.
We can't build solar or windmills fast enough, to help with a hydrogen economy, which itself isn't ready yet.
The only drawback BESIDES up front costs is that it would take about 17 years to replace all the vehicles in the US with diesels. But just to make enough biodiesel for the 18 wheelers would be a great first step, and then over time the cars in the US would be replaced, probably at the same rate as the decline in OIL.
I hope Mike Briggs and his partners or any other company can get these ponds and this biodiesel to market one day.
I think they're gonna need some serious HELP from INVESTORS OR THE US GOVT to do it.
Unfortunately we ALL KNOW BUSH wouldn't help them. Maybe a FUTURE HILLARY CLINTON (Oh God, lol, I'm scared) President might??
Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 1647 Location: Davis, California
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 1:11 am Post subject:
I wish I could attach files. If anyone wants this DOE report on algal biodiesel production I'll be happy to send it to them.
I just got it this weekend when I emailed my proff for some information on biodiesel from algae. _________________ Joseph Stalin "It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
chuck6877, I am a firm believer that biofuels are the solution. Algae might be a part of it, but it is only one part of a mult-solution with biofuels.
I encourage you to also read about cellulose ethanol. This is different than traditional corn/grain ethanol. Cellulose ethanol has a higher energy rating and can be made from many sources of biomass.
But new sources of energy are only 1/2 of the issue. The other side of the debate is on conservation and making efficient use of new methods transportation. We will likely have to transition to plug-in hybrid vehicles which are much smaller. Vehicles which get their first 30 miles per day from the electric grid before even using the liquid fuel.
Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 1647 Location: Davis, California
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject:
chuck6877 wrote:
Omar,
Could you post on here the highlights and a summary? A lot of people would be interested. I'm sure.
Chuck
p.s. could you send me the whole report?
Basically, the costs are too high, yields are low for the most part and few suitable sites are available in the US with the right climate and sunlight. _________________ Joseph Stalin "It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
I don't usually have enough time to keep up with all of the postings on here, but for anyone who's curious to have a video clearly explaining how these researchers generate biodiesel from algae, here's a great example. It's nice to have a visual- I frequently wonder how in the world new energy developments work.
Joined: May 07, 2007 Posts: 434 Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: LIFE WILL GO ON
chuck6877 wrote:
ALSO, don't you think that militarily, the U.S. will ensure that the Saudi Arabia pipeline will continue to the U.S., and not to other nations? The US will have an easier transition than other countries into the NEXT energy age, because the U.S. will ensure MILITARILY that our supplies will continue. Other countries will get energy AFTER the U.S. gets theirs.
Methinks this would result in other countries ensuring MILITARILY that the U.S. suffers great consequences for trying to be first in line. Particularly Russia. And the European Union among others.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the worlds energy demands met by Algae today. But i'm also a realist. If it's expensive and doesn't make a decent return in the short-term, the men and women in charge of the organisations that matter (Government, etc.) aren't going to give a stuff.
We see this all the time in South Australia, for example, with our one-way expressway, the government investing in a new football stadium, while our PROTOTYPE desalination plant hasn't even had it's foundations laid yet. On the plus side, our metropolitan rail system is finally going to be electrified, but they're going to convert our 30 year old diesel rail-car sets to do it. Their should be a lot more government and corporate cash going to places that it currently isn't. Fix that A.S.A.P. and we'll be on a role _________________ "That the cream cannot help but always rise up to the top, well I say, <censored by peakoil.com> floats"
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Will Biodiesel from ALGAE be the SOLUTION???
has anyone tried to convert dead algae to methane it seems to me much easier than biodiesel from algae considering that I still havent seen single liter of algae biodiesel anywhere
I suspect conversion to methane would be much simplier than oil extraction
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