Scientists to attempt to create black-holes

dissident · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 419

The worst that can happen to your 1x10^20 eV proton if it collides with regular matter is *fusion* with other nucleons. Collisions with electrons are not going to produce significant increases in energy density as the mass of the proton is 1836 times greater than that of the electron and all you may get is the formation of a neutron. The proton will not be crushed into a small volume during this or any of the other collisions. In contrast, if it collides with an anti-proton as at the LHC there is no Coulomb repulsion to produce scattering and at the same time the proton is destroyed. For a brief instant you have a very high energy density which has the potential to produce a microscopic black hole.

Collisions do not increase energy. If the 1x10^20 eV proton does not have enough energy density to turn into a microscopic black hole then it will have even less after every collision. The fact that they can measure these particles at ground level after they have slammed into thousands of nuclei on their way through the atmosphere says it all.

EnergyUnlimited · Fusion Joined: May 15, 2006 Posts: 3117

PhebaAndThePilgrim

Good evening, From Pheba from the farm:
Does this have anything to do with a recent article in National Geographic magazine concerning a huge machine (covers parts of Switzerland and France).
I did not truly understand the article, but it had something to do with creating a mini black-hole type particle.
If I can find the article I will post Month and page.
Pheba.

IndigoMoon

It is darn right amazing what some people will post on the internet. I searched and found out that it is called the Large Hadron Collider CMS Experiment. I found a forum (techy, I think) with a guy that is actually working on the thing. He posted videos of the thing's construction that he took with his cell phone. I do not have mp4 on my computer (and have no idea what it is!) and I did not want to download them without well, someone else going first. Smile

I work from home and this is my only computer--it is my livelihood. I did download the 171 MB, 17 minute long mpeg file though. I can at least scan it before I watch it.

Link to the forum and videos
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EnergyUnlimited · Fusion Joined: May 15, 2006 Posts: 3117

PhebaAndThePilgrim

Good morning from Pheba:
Goodness, amazing what a little sleep can do.
Found the National Geographic issue.
March of 2008. Title article is "Inside Animal Minds". Has a Border Collie on the front cover.
The article in question is titled: "Search for the God Particle", and starts on page 90.
From the article:
"The ATLAS detector takes shape under the French-Swiss border. ""
This machine is honking huge. The magazine has a foldout showing
the heart of the machine.
My opinion; science is insane. we are insane if we let them keep playing around this way.
From the article:
"The world's largest solenoid magnet will fit inside a steel cylinder at the heart of the Compact Muon Solenoid (CMS).
The machine is located 300 feet down.
There is a ring underground that is 17 miles in circumference.
Two beams of particles will race in opposite directions around the tunnel.
There are magnets linked all through the ring, like sausages.
At four locations the beams will converge, sending the particles crashing into each other at nearly the speed of light. "
The heaviest CMS is heavier than the Eiffel Tower.
The tallest is seven stories tall. "
From the article:
'It sounds scary, and it is. The particle beam could drill a hole in just about anything...
I have a question:
When they turn on all of those magnets, how will that effect the planet?
"Most of the magnets are the length of a basketball court and weigh more than 30 tons.
This article really shook me up the first time I read it.
The science is a bit over my head, but my instincts tell me that it
is not wise to be playing around with this much power.
Pheba.

PhebaAndThePilgrim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fJ6PMfnz2E

Good day from Pheba:

Experimenting to see if this is how to do a blue thingy.
I did a copy and paste on this address, which is a documentary on
the Hadron Collider.
Pheba.

PhebaAndThePilgrim

Hi From Pheba:
Wow, I did it. Finally I figured that out. It's so easy.
Pheba.

EnergyUnlimited · Fusion Joined: May 15, 2006 Posts: 3117

Dezakin · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Feb 09, 2005 Posts: 1360

dissident · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 419

Dezakin, you're take on the Casimir effect is one that a lot of people repeat but is actually not evidence of any virtual particles.

After reading this paper the popular mythology loses its sparkle.

Dezakin · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Feb 09, 2005 Posts: 1360

I liked the paper. It presented an alternate to quantum field theory for predicting the Casimir force. However, it wasn't very rigorous in terms of its predictions, and as of now is a mathematical toy, as admited by the author of the paper:

dissident · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 419

You are wrong, I am not arguing against quantum field theory. Your snipe at the paper was rather weak. The Casimir effect is simply an extension of the Van der Waals forces at large scales. To insist the Casimir effect is "proof" of measurable virtual particles basically boils down to choice of belief. If this is an acceptable standard of proof then all of the yammering about global warming being "an unproven effect of human activity" is beyond obscene.

Your link to Sokolov-Ternov effect has nothing to do with the measurable reality of virtual particles (e.g. clouds of positrons around electrons that are there all they time but somehow never manage to obscure the electric field of the electron). It is merely support for the validity of quantum field theory. The whole notion of virtual particles is an arbitrary qualitative assignment to terms in perturbative expansion (Dyson series) of the Hamiltonian. When you create a zero-point energy device then perhaps you can claim that you are dealing with something more than labels.

Hawking radiation is a speculation and not a confirmed experimental fact. Perhaps the LHC will give us some experimental results. Hopefully they will be benign.

EnergyUnlimited · Fusion Joined: May 15, 2006 Posts: 3117