Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13124 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
sjn wrote:
I was being facetious, though frankly I think it would be a healthy development.
That would be great, but we can't realistically expect it. If people are to change, there need to be people modeling that change so others can see and learn the advantages to another way to do things. We need to try to make it seem not only pragmatically necessary but also appealing - a huge challenge, I admit! But I have absolutely no faith in the State to do this for us, none whatsoever. And I refuse to let that get in my way of doing all I can to change to the best of my ability and help others do so as well, in my own small way. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
mrobert wrote:
IF you would have the chance to speak to the world for 20 minutes, and have a guarantee that everyone would get and understand your message, would you tell them about peak oil?
"Cough, cough. Hello. Now, what I'm going to tell you about Peak Oil, Peak Evertything and Peak Stupid Greed migh make you want to panic and start looting all the supermarkets, but... OOPS!!!"
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
MrBean wrote:
mrobert wrote:
IF you would have the chance to speak to the world for 20 minutes, and have a guarantee that everyone would get and understand your message, would you tell them about peak oil?
"Cough, cough. Hello. Now, what I'm going to tell you about Peak Oil, Peak Evertything and Peak Stupid Greed migh make you want to panic and start looting all the supermarkets, but... OOPS!!!"
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 1178 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
sjn wrote:
I've noticed recently people are far more receptive to the idea of Peak Oil.
My avatar tells the story of such reception. But I wouldn't go as fas as stating "no longer any resistance." I still know more people that doesn't even know what PO is, than the ones that do.
socrates1fan wrote:
To a large degree people are starting to accept that oil is finite.
We always knew it was finite. We didn't know exactly when it was going to end. We still don't. These price hikes have little to do with the supply or regulatory side, rather more with the demand side.
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
VMarcHart wrote:
sjn wrote:
I've noticed recently people are far more receptive to the idea of Peak Oil.
My avatar tells the story of such reception. But I wouldn't go as fas as stating "no longer any resistance." I still know more people that doesn't even know what PO is, than the ones that do.[/.quote]
No, of course there will always be resistance to ideas that challenge the dominant paradigm, but the strain caused by the incessant price rises and news reports about stagnant supply and increasing demand are opening up cracks that allow the truth to seep in.
Quote:
socrates1fan wrote:
To a large degree people are starting to accept that oil is finite.
We always knew it was finite. We didn't know exactly when it was going to end. We still don't. These price hikes have little to do with the supply or regulatory side, rather more with the demand side.
Actually, most people never contemplated the finiteness of any of our base resources. They simply assume that tomorrow will be much like today, only more, and better. You are free to believe that prices are unrelated to supply constraints but those looking to have their demand fulfilled may disagree with you.
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
I haven't tried talking to anyone in real life, just trying to be supportive of lower energy type things that anyone comes up with. Online I've noticed a lot of opposition...
One person said it's the oil companies fleecing people, there's loads of oil, it gets made in the earth and the oil fields refill themselves. Others who were more informed about oil said that the refineries weren't working at full capacity (USA) due to not enough demand, and that Saudi has lots of wells capped (whatever the right terminology is) and they could uncap those if it was a supply/demand issue. That was actually good because they were open to discussion, so I asked them if they knew the year of peak oil discoveries and they were surprised at the answer. I was also able to point someone in the direction of numbers of how much more oil the USA uses than other countries, they didn't believe me but I think they did want to look it up to see if I was right or not.
I read an oil thread in a forum yesterday and someone said that the Bakken formation has loads of oil in it, but they're not drilling there yet. In response someone else said yes, there's loads of oil shale too! Someone else said that they read oil is made deep in the earth from helium and moves upwards to where we find it, so we'll never run out, they even provided a link to a website saying this.
Joined: May 13, 2006 Posts: 161 Location: Australia
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
But I still get some resistance on it meaning Global War. I don't want a war but if history is anything to go by it will happen. My only uncertainity is how many nukes get traded.
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
VMarcHart wrote:
socrates1fan wrote:
To a large degree people are starting to accept that oil is finite.
We always knew it was finite. We didn't know exactly when it was going to end. We still don't. These price hikes have little to do with the supply or regulatory side, rather more with the demand side.
Indeed most people know it is finite.
If you ask them if they believe it is a never ending source than they will tell you no.
But its the same with death. People take it for granted that they will be alive tomorrow. If you ask them if they think they will live forever they will tell you no.
same thing.
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
timbo wrote:
But I still get some resistance on it meaning Global War. I don't want a war but if history is anything to go by it will happen. My only uncertainity is how many nukes get traded.
I don't think we have to worry about Nukes.
People with nukes realize if they attack other countries with nukes that country will try and take them down with them.
-_-
No one will nuke the other(or at least the countries with nukes) due to their own self-interests.
I don't think people have nukes for war as much as they do to use it as black mail or power.
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
@sjn: He did partially blame me. He contracted me to design the website. He was building an online store.
You don't have to work in the industry, to know that if you want to sell something online on a website, you have to advertise and promote it, so that people visit it and eventually buy something.
He claimed that if the site would have been done "right", people would have simply stumbled upon it and the business would have went perfectly.
Also, he claimed that I overcharged him, when I negotiated the price in a friendly maner, like this:
Me: What is your best price offer for this, from other companies?
Him: X dollars
Me: Ok, will charge you around 60% of your cheapest offer. 40% discount for being friends. _________________ capitalism *is* fun | crude oil price
Joined: May 13, 2006 Posts: 161 Location: Australia
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
socrates1fan wrote:
...No one will nuke the other...
Hope you are right. Its just that desperate people do stupid things. Curious as to your thoughts on the probability of conventional wars. If the current poll is anything to go by then things are rather gloomy or maybe there are lots of doomers here
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 1178 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
sjn wrote:
...there will always be resistance to ideas that challenge the dominant paradigm...
Please explain the dominant paradigm.
sjn wrote:
...most people never contemplated the finiteness of any of our base resources.
I don't know about that.
sjn wrote:
You are free to believe prices are unrelated to supply constraints but those looking to have their demand fulfilled may disagree with you.
Thanks for the permission. Supply and Demand is a tough concept to grasp. At least for me. It took me years to get it. Please allow me to put it this way. It's sizzling at the beach, people are thirsty, you have 1,000 bottles of cold water on you, and a million bottles in storage. The line is long and you start selling for $1.00 and increase of $0.10 with each served customer. The line is still long despite your price increases. Why would you lower your prices? For charity perhaps, but this isn't charity; this is business. You know what the water is, and the line is the Chinese, the Indians, the American outrageous life-style, etc, etc. Supply and Demand. You don't have to get it, but please just try to give some thought to it. Do you want for prices to go down? Stop buying it.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4948 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
vetusfirma wrote:
eastbay wrote:
socrates1fan wrote:
The only dieoff I see in the world due to PO is in 3rd and 2nd world countries.
There are many living in the USA who survive in serious poverty which can only be described as 'third world' conditions. They too will be among the first to go when Our Common Disaster finally hits. The poor everywhere will be the first and worst impacted. It will be fascinating to watch this process unfold, uh... for those fortunate enough to survive the initial crunch.
Note: The term 'second world', no longer applies to any nation. It's anachronistic holding historical interest only. It was primarily (and rarely) used to describe communist Eastern Europe/ USSR. It was used to describe that handful of developed command economies of which there are currently none.
Oh really, what about North Korea, Myanmar and Cuba. And the poor of this country, unlike most of the world, are supported by the nation and have been for the last 60 years. Do you think welfare and social security will just stop. pfff
None of those three countries you listed are developed countries. They're all dirt poor. They were all part of the third world when the term was widely used.
And yes, welfare and social security (in most First world countries) will be reduced to the point where they're insignificant as we descend into social and economic chaos. And while we're on the topic of state support for non-producing people, expect all state entitlements to decline and then cease as we pass into the depths of the post-peak disaster. Federal civilian and military retirement checks won't be immune either. Any check that arrives in a mailbox or is automatically deposited into a bank account will be initially reduced, then eliminated.
There is nothing that can stop this process. It's as natural as the rising and setting of the sun and moon. The petals are falling off. Celebrate the flowers to come because the flowers we now enjoy have blossomed and are about to fall. _________________ Got Dharma?
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: No longer any resistance to the Peak Oil news?
timbo wrote:
socrates1fan wrote:
...No one will nuke the other...
Hope you are right. Its just that desperate people do stupid things. Curious as to your thoughts on the probability of conventional wars. If the current poll is anything to go by then things are rather gloomy or maybe there are lots of doomers here
True but we would know if it was growing up to something like that.
It would take years of war for people to get to that level and that would be a final blow.
We would know by then what could happen.
It isn't like a country is about to push a button to nuke another.
Like I said, I believe they use it as power and blackmail.
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or maybe there are lots of doomers here 
