Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Click the image to inlarge, then look at the right side.
Our planetary icecap is evaporating as I write, and not only is it not in the headlines, there are no news stories about it anywhere (that I can find).
We're sleepwalking into another planet.
You hit the nail on the head, but it isnt us here reading this sleepwalking, its the ones out there making the decisions for us who dont seem to give a damn who are. Or do they give a damn and just know theres nothing that can be done so give people false hope? I dont know, but what other reason would it be that those in charge have not done more to save the very thing that sustain us all?
At very least it should be in every news headlines on every station, taught in every school!
I do not understand how people can mindlessly walk around and deny there is even a problem!? Even with everything that has been happening there are still people out there who still dont understand and that I think needs urgent attention.
The people on this site planning and preparing for this day to come are the people who can educate the ones who dont understand. There will always be people determined to go against the flow and deny the obvious but if people let personalities like that dominate then not only have we let the Earth die but we helped them do it knowing more could be done.
This will be the very first summer the North Pole could be totally without ice. Past predictions said this wouldnt happen for years, but now it is really happening. I dont expect water levels to rise as much as some have predicted due to reasons already explained in other posts in this thread.
But not only is the concern for the lack of ice for the region and impact it has on the weather, but what also needs to be considered which im yet to find a post on is, what was contained within the ice which now has been released to the oceans?
Massive amounts of whatever contaminats that were stored in the ice over generations is now being released, and of course its all going into the oceans!
There is only so much a living organism can take before life ceases.
This melt must be taken seriously. IMO any who deny it should be educated to the point of annoyance.
I wouldn't say they're contaminates (sp?); but clathrates (sp?) are very dangerous for how the climate affects life.
Would you mind educating me or posting a link on the difference between contaminants and clathrates? _________________ -----------------------------------------------------------
Control your destiny or somebody else will.
-Jack Welch
-----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Record Ice Loss in Arctic 2008
Contaminants would probably be considered chemicals that are immediately toxic to life forms - such as cholorine, sulfides, sulfites, and certain carbon compounds. Clathrates are a kind of heterogeneous ice formed when gasses are mixed with water at high pressure and low temperature. Methane clathrates form a particular threat to the Earth's ecosystem because when they are depressurized or warmed up, they rapidly release gasseous methane. Methane is approximately 20 times as effective as a greenhouse gas in the short term, and 100 times as potent as carbon dioxide as measured over equal periods of time. Some estimates conclude there may be as much as 400 Billion tons of methane clathrates in danger of melting as a result of warming ocean temperatures.
Zeeea wrote:
anagami wrote:
Zeeea wrote:
dohboi wrote:
We seem to have jumped off the cliff--ice coverage is dropping like an anvil, right in line with what happened last year at this time.
Click the image to inlarge, then look at the right side.
Our planetary icecap is evaporating as I write, and not only is it not in the headlines, there are no news stories about it anywhere (that I can find).
We're sleepwalking into another planet.
You hit the nail on the head, but it isnt us here reading this sleepwalking, its the ones out there making the decisions for us who dont seem to give a damn who are. Or do they give a damn and just know theres nothing that can be done so give people false hope? I dont know, but what other reason would it be that those in charge have not done more to save the very thing that sustain us all?
At very least it should be in every news headlines on every station, taught in every school!
I do not understand how people can mindlessly walk around and deny there is even a problem!? Even with everything that has been happening there are still people out there who still dont understand and that I think needs urgent attention.
The people on this site planning and preparing for this day to come are the people who can educate the ones who dont understand. There will always be people determined to go against the flow and deny the obvious but if people let personalities like that dominate then not only have we let the Earth die but we helped them do it knowing more could be done.
This will be the very first summer the North Pole could be totally without ice. Past predictions said this wouldnt happen for years, but now it is really happening. I dont expect water levels to rise as much as some have predicted due to reasons already explained in other posts in this thread.
But not only is the concern for the lack of ice for the region and impact it has on the weather, but what also needs to be considered which im yet to find a post on is, what was contained within the ice which now has been released to the oceans?
Massive amounts of whatever contaminats that were stored in the ice over generations is now being released, and of course its all going into the oceans!
There is only so much a living organism can take before life ceases.
This melt must be taken seriously. IMO any who deny it should be educated to the point of annoyance.
I wouldn't say they're contaminates (sp?); but clathrates (sp?) are very dangerous for how the climate affects life.
Would you mind educating me or posting a link on the difference between contaminants and clathrates?
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Record Ice Loss in Arctic 2008
Good explanation, but I think you have this part reversed:
"Methane is approximately 20 times as effective as a greenhouse gas in the short term, and 100 times as potent as carbon dioxide as measured over equal periods of time."
As I recall (but I'll double check), it is over the short term that methane packs its biggest punch, since most of it falls out of the system after a decade or so.
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1190 Location: Central NC
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Record Ice Loss in Arctic 2008
The other often overlooked issue with methane is it degrades into CO2 and water vapor.
"Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas, and it degrades to CO2, another greenhouse gas which accumulates in the atmosphere just as fossil fuel CO2 does."
Link: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=227 _________________ "The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Record Ice Loss in Arctic 2008
dohboi wrote:
Good explanation, but I think you have this part reversed:
"Methane is approximately 20 times as effective as a greenhouse gas in the short term, and 100 times as potent as carbon dioxide as measured over equal periods of time."
As I recall (but I'll double check), it is over the short term that methane packs its biggest punch, since most of it falls out of the system after a decade or so.
Thats what I was going to ask next ...how long do they think before the effects will be noticed after its released? _________________ -----------------------------------------------------------
Control your destiny or somebody else will.
-Jack Welch
-----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Record Ice Loss in Arctic 2008
jbrovont wrote:
Contaminants would probably be considered chemicals that are immediately toxic to life forms - such as cholorine, sulfides, sulfites, and certain carbon compounds. Clathrates are a kind of heterogeneous ice formed when gasses are mixed with water at high pressure and low temperature. Methane clathrates form a particular threat to the Earth's ecosystem because when they are depressurized or warmed up, they rapidly release gasseous methane. Methane is approximately 20 times as effective as a greenhouse gas in the short term, and 100 times as potent as carbon dioxide as measured over equal periods of time. Some estimates conclude there may be as much as 400 Billion tons of methane clathrates in danger of melting as a result of warming ocean temperatures.
Zeeea wrote:
anagami wrote:
Zeeea wrote:
dohboi wrote:
We seem to have jumped off the cliff--ice coverage is dropping like an anvil, right in line with what happened last year at this time.
Click the image to inlarge, then look at the right side.
Our planetary icecap is evaporating as I write, and not only is it not in the headlines, there are no news stories about it anywhere (that I can find).
We're sleepwalking into another planet.
You hit the nail on the head, but it isnt us here reading this sleepwalking, its the ones out there making the decisions for us who dont seem to give a damn who are. Or do they give a damn and just know theres nothing that can be done so give people false hope? I dont know, but what other reason would it be that those in charge have not done more to save the very thing that sustain us all?
At very least it should be in every news headlines on every station, taught in every school!
I do not understand how people can mindlessly walk around and deny there is even a problem!? Even with everything that has been happening there are still people out there who still dont understand and that I think needs urgent attention.
The people on this site planning and preparing for this day to come are the people who can educate the ones who dont understand. There will always be people determined to go against the flow and deny the obvious but if people let personalities like that dominate then not only have we let the Earth die but we helped them do it knowing more could be done.
This will be the very first summer the North Pole could be totally without ice. Past predictions said this wouldnt happen for years, but now it is really happening. I dont expect water levels to rise as much as some have predicted due to reasons already explained in other posts in this thread.
But not only is the concern for the lack of ice for the region and impact it has on the weather, but what also needs to be considered which im yet to find a post on is, what was contained within the ice which now has been released to the oceans?
Massive amounts of whatever contaminats that were stored in the ice over generations is now being released, and of course its all going into the oceans!
There is only so much a living organism can take before life ceases.
This melt must be taken seriously. IMO any who deny it should be educated to the point of annoyance.
I wouldn't say they're contaminates (sp?); but clathrates (sp?) are very dangerous for how the climate affects life.
Would you mind educating me or posting a link on the difference between contaminants and clathrates?
Thanks for that ...after reading I am more concerned than I was though lol ... _________________ -----------------------------------------------------------
Control your destiny or somebody else will.
-Jack Welch
-----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Record Ice Loss in Arctic 2008
Hi Snj,
I worry about the Cryosphere sea ice concentration maps. They indicate less ice free than those from the NSIDC site. Also the Cryosphere data from last year shows more ice melting while the NSIDC site show less.
For me, I decided to stick with the NSIDC data. Additionally, to me, the last / current year data blinkers give a better picture of what is going on.
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Record Ice Loss in Arctic 2008
GregWatson wrote:
Hi Snj,
I worry about the Cryosphere sea ice concentration maps. They indicate less ice free than those from the NSIDC site. Also the Cryosphere data from last year shows more ice melting while the NSIDC site show less.
It does seem a little prone to spurious data, though it's what I've been using for the last few years so I'll stick with it for consistency. I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by "less ice free", there is a lot more red in the ice concentration than last year, even though there is overall less open sea at present. It's also interesting to look at the current shape of the Sea Ice Area curve, at present it is undergoing an acelerating decline, whilst it was at the infection point at this time last year.
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 3904 Location: over here
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Record Ice Loss in Arctic 2008
comparing the sattelite image for june 30th 2008 with june 30th 2007 (here) has me thinking there is a good chance we will dodge the bullet of a completely melted north pole this year; things simply look better this year than the same time last year, let's hope it holds up! (not that it matters much, it'll melt, if not this or next year, it will be the year after that) _________________ "The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Record Ice Loss in Arctic 2008
do you know what the internal temperature was this time last year ? _________________ -----------------------------------------------------------
Control your destiny or somebody else will.
-Jack Welch
-----------------------------------------------------------
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I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by "less ice free", there is a lot more red in the ice concentration than last year, even though there is overall less open sea at present. It's also interesting to look at the current shape of the Sea Ice Area curve, at present it is undergoing an acelerating decline, whilst it was at the infection point at this time last year.
