Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
Quote:
The Future Looks Like This dep't: It will become a sign of hospitality to have extra bikes at home for guests. Guest bikes need not be fancy, only serviceable and practical, but should have an appropriate gear range for local terrain and should also have racks on the back for carrying stuff, and of course lights to comply with local safety laws.
Having no car, apparently we live in the future. We own three extra bicycles, that often come in handy when we have visitors.
Two of the bikes are really our winter bikes with studs on the tires. If visitors keep coming we change to summer tires if necessary. The third is an extra bike, old and simple that we fixed up instead of throwing out for sentimental reason because it used to belong to my father.
An older future: Meeting arriving visitors or family members with luggage at the nearest bus stop (<1 km away) with a hand-pulled cart for the luggage was part of my nocar summer holiday childhood.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
gg3 wrote:
The Future Looks Like This dep't: It will become a sign of hospitality to have extra bikes at home for guests. Guest bikes need not be fancy, only serviceable and practical, but should have an appropriate gear range for local terrain and should also have racks on the back for carrying stuff, and of course lights to comply with local safety laws. Helmets for guests are also a good idea, but should be cleaned in between guests, as you'd wash the sheets on a guest bed.
Regarding helmets, if things get as "bad" as you think there will be no cars left on the roads. Once there are no cars, screw the helmets. The Dutch don't wear helmets as they cruise to the day care to pick up their kids on their trike. In a bike dominated future transportation bikes will change so they are comfortrable and clean to ride in normal clothing, including no helmets to mess up the hair.
Personally I wear my helmet in town only to protect me from the motoring masses, in the peleton to protect me from the possiblility of a pile up, and on the trail to protect from trees and rocks. If cars are ever off the roads, I'll skip the helmet around town. _________________ Drive to work... work to drive!
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
My 9.99 POS Bell helmet took a hit in my last accident. No cars involved either. I would like a helmet that incorporated some kind of wind break for the ears. Wind noise is annoying.
As for breaking U-locks, pickability and so forth, how are they easier to crack than a heavy chain, which has links less thick than the U-lock? And the Bic-pick fiasco only applied to one particular make and model of u-lock. Plus U locks can be immobilized to the bike frame while riding. Most cable locks seem ungainly.
I like the thief ambush scenario. But why not be sporting and wait with a butane torch, fire extinguisher, and hammer. Fark the police. Street justice.
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
Thanks, people, I hardly know anything about bicycles so this thread has been tremendously helpful.
Been checking around bike shops here, one place can put together a Surly steel bike with an Xtracyle Trailer, plus a nexus eight hub with V breaks, or for two hundred dollars more, an Alfino hub with Disk breaks.
Another shop can put together a Surly Big Dummy, with Deore equipment and hydraulic stop breaks.
Shop #2 recommended against the internal hub, said that it can still break and if it does the parts can be hard to replace. Did not seem to think that a derailleur system with 27 gears would be hard to fix. Of course, more gears are better for hauling big xtracycle-size loads up hills.
Not sure if more can be said on this than has been said already, but any more thoughts about the merits of internal hub vs. standard derailleur gears? My impression is that hubs may be more reliable, but they are more difficult to repair when they do break. Also hubs are less efficient? Would it be wise to get the extra gears for a sport utility bike?
What about hydraulic stops - is this something that can be easily fixed when broken?
How much better is having a Big Dummy (which is built from the get-go to be a sport utility bike) vs attaching a Xtracycle trailer hitch to a regular Surly steel bike? The price difference between the two options is substantial, if it weren't then I'd definitely get the BD.
I noticed that the costs here in Canada are huge relative to what's posted on the web and to the prices quoted in this thread. The bikes that have been quoted to me run $1500-1900. I don't know if I can have one of these bikes made in the U.S. and then bring it here?
The price also has me worried about theft potential. Is this a wise investment considering it could disappear? If I use two different types of locks and always lock it in highly visible, safe areas, would that be enough to protect it?
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1496 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
I would say that cyclists will have a variety of cycle types to choose from;
All weather: Velomobiles, which are especially good in rain and cold, and for long distances. Can be supplemented with hub motors to help with hills. You might see a bicycling future like this.
Riding to a bus in an outer suburb: folding bikes will be important here, as bus bike carriers will be over-full, and people won't want to leave their bikes at the bus stop. So they would carry them onto the bus like a shopping bag.
Tandems may become more popular as people might want to take one of their 9-15 yr old kids places in a more secure fashion.
Bike Trailers: I see these as allowing people to be nimble when they don't need to carry loads. Xtracycles will work for some, but I'm not sure I would like biking around in a unnecessarily heavy SUB when I don't have the need for moving medium sized loads. And a bike trailer will work with 0-600 pound loads. So rack and panniers for me for the light and medium loads and everything heavier goes on the bike trailer.
Road bike vs. Recumbent: A personal choice as far as I'm concerned. Road bikes can be less expensive, though recumbents have more fairing options, as far as I'm aware.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4897 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
I think those internal hubs look really sweet. I was almost tempted to go with a Trek that had one. However, the bike shop was out and they said it would be awhile before they could get one in. I still think that would be enough gears for most situations.
Having 2 roadbikes and a full suspension, i'm really tempted to just grab a commuter style bike while i still can. I love the roadbikes, but they just aren't that great with gravel. The FS is fun going downhill, but going up is a workout!
Another option is to go with a 29in mtn bike. Put slicks on it and you'd have a pretty decent all around bike. _________________ Clothing should be optional.
Joined: Mar 05, 2006 Posts: 420 Location: East edge of the Milky Way
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
I'll add my two cents worth. I agree that steel frames and rims are the way to go. But please avoid the'cheap' steel frames and rims from China, you will regret it.
Now I'm a cheap old bastard, but consider picking up a used Raleigh bike, pre-late 70's. These bikes were made with high quality steel(yep, heavier though), and were built to last 100 years!
I own 3 of them: one 35 years old, one 31 years old, and one 'newer' one 23 years old. They are truely well crafted machines, that could even be passed down to one's grandchildren, and still be running well.
I also own a 13 year old Kona HumuHumu, and though being made from low end Taiwanese steel, refuses to die, consdering all the varied abuse I throw at it.
Single speeds(2 of my bikes) are dead simple to maintain, and truely bombproof.
Internal geared hubs(1 sturmey archer) are the next best thing, and in my case have been running without problems for 35 years!
So these are real world recommendations from an old guy who cycles/cycled throughout the whole year including rough Canadian winters
I think these would hold up pretty well Post Peak Oil, but they'll definately become 'thug magnets'...and thats where good steel chains come in...
Cheers
Alex _________________ The bigger you build the bonfire, the more darkness is revealed."
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
SILENTTODD wrote:
Knowing what you know now, what kind of bicycle would you recommend people get before PeakOil (or post PostOil, believing we are already there)?
I have been a rider for the last 47 years, mostly on conventional, single speed American Bicycles, (Schwinns, I was a paper Boy for 6 years). Although in the 70’s I did upgrade to a steel frame Italian road bike, 12 speed derailleur, (I don’t remember the name) that I put couple of thousand miles on.
There are amazing carbon component type bikes available today that did not exist even 15 years ago. But the problem I see in these bikes in the long term, is if the frames crack as I’ve heard they do in the long run. Then you are “shi*t” out of luck. Most touring bike experts I have read indicate you should look for a Steel frame bike because if anything goes wrong with the frame, you can always get a local welder to fix it.
Currently I own a 16 year old Schwinn Steel butted frame 12 speed Road Bike, and a Schwinn Mesa (aluminum frame) Mountain Bike. I ride the Mountain Bike every day to work right now, and the 12 speed road on the weekends.
For the long term I have considered the Trek 520 steel frame triple crank touring bike, or building my own based on the Surly steel frame, you can read about on the web. Steel frames have a reputation for lasting longer and being less trouble.
I know there are people reading this who have far more experience in building and servicing bicycles than I have. But consider the post peak world I’m interested in. Will Carbon a Fiber type materials be available? Maybe the best designed Bike is the Chinese made, steel framed, “Flying Pigeon”.
The sad thing for me is I got a Montague folding mountain bike and customized it to heavy duty specs last year for a trip to Moab. But the gas was so high and my prep work took all my time so the bike was a waste.
I got many bikes, most mountain bikes and some other folders like Dahon. Too hilly in my local for much street biking. I used to cart my bikes to the trails for biking.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4897 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
I sweat all the way through boxers and cargo shorts, anyone have a fix? Is it the seat/shorts/me? Its embarrassing if you have to go in somewhere. _________________ Clothing should be optional.
Joined: Sep 29, 2005 Posts: 456 Location: I heard we are not the real America..Eugene, Oregon.
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
I always toss on some cycling short under my regular shorts. the Chamois in the shorts usually soaks up everything and protects the rump.
On the side of what bikes...steel..carbon...aluminum....Ti....I have all 4.
Bike 1- Trek Madone 5.2 SL (carbon)...full Dura Ace. At 17 lbs., this is the bike I take to the hills and sit on for hours. I don't lock this thing up anywhere.
Bike 2-LeMond Zurich (Steel) currently being rebuilt as a street machine. I have had this for 10 years and it's a workhorse!
Bike 3-Airborne Lucky Strike MTN bike (titanium)....got this bike on close-out. The thing is bomb proof! Currently switching out the front fork (suspension) for a carbon fork. I don't mountain bike and shocks are not fun on the street. This bike is geared like a road bike. It's a quick commuter and will be even faster with carbon forks. I run two different wheelsets for this one.....it handles like a dream in the snow!
Bike 4-Scattante road frame (aluminum w/carbon forks) This is my single speed I bulit last summer. I bought the frame for 175 from an online dealer and built it with parts I already had. I commute on this one as well as pull the trailer and tag-a-long. Currently running a Shimano wheelset on this one. Overall....I paid little to build this and it's serving me well.
Bike 5- Schwinn Cruiser (steel) I can ride this around town and lock it up a feel ok about it. One gear...it's a tank...and the workout is great!
it's got a rack with bags so it's good for little store runs. It's fun as hell to ride!
The wife is rocking a new Trek commuter with a rack/bags and all the trimmings and has a back-up Specialized Mtn Bike.
All my bikes serve me well. But, you can't go wrong with a steel frame.
There are some wonderful steel bikes out there and if you work with your local bike shop, you may be able to cut a deal of some kind.
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
dunewalker wrote:
Mountain bikes are the only practical version of bicycles for the future, when road maintenance begins to lag, then stop entirely. The fatter tires can deal more effectively with road surface irregularities and a rider can abandon roads entirely when necessary.
Short of blasted rubble or deep sand there isn't much a road bike can't ride over w/ touring tires that a mtb can't ride over. _________________
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
Regarding the future bike, I think it will look more and more like the most widely-distributed and used bicycles in the world, the "Flying Pigeon" type single-speed roadster, as mentioned earlier.
These things have a lot to recommend them: solid construction, simple maintenance, simplicity, reliability, and a proven track-record of operation under the worst of conditions.
Are they fast? No.
Are they sleek? No, but I for one actually like the look of the things.
Do they work? Yes, they work.
Are they cheap? Yes, they are, unless you're buying one as a fashion statement, as some are doing now.
A domestically-produced version would be great, but would cost too much to be useful to the masses, so, for now, we'd have to import the things while we still can.
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
Yes, traditional bikes are the most reliable. Here in Holland i regularly see ones that are 50+ years old, and are driven daily.
Dont buy the Chinese-made ones tough; i've inspected a few of those at the local bikeshop and i dont expect them to last for more than 5 years.
In Britain and the Netherlands the traditional bikes are still being produced and they are still very good.
Links to a few manufacturers:
http://www.workcycles.com/workbike/index.html http://www.batavus.nl/ http://www.gazelle.nl/
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 755 Location: northern California
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Bicycle Riders of the Future.
yesplease wrote:
Short of blasted rubble or deep sand there isn't much a road bike can't ride over w/ touring tires that a mtb can't ride over.
Well, that IS true--remember the old cyclecross racers? However, my opinion is biased by the fact that I live in the desert, in a place I've dubbed "Dune Valley" and there is plenty of deep sand... _________________ "When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon."
Thomas Paine
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I agree that steel frames and rims are the way to go. But please avoid the'cheap' steel frames and rims from China, you will regret it.
