SpringCreekFarm Draft Horse Update

mystiek · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: SpringCreekFarm's New Horses

They are beautiful-congrad!

AlterEgo · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: SpringCreekFarm's New Horses

Really beautiful fillies, Spring Creek. What are they? They look like half-bloods?
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SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 891

They are registered Percheron mares.

AlterEgo · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: Re: SpringCreekFarm's New Horses

Beautiful dapple grey. Just don't let them step on your feet with those pie plates!
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madison · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 255

They are GORGEOUS. What an asset, to you and to your community. You could make alot of friends plowing their fields in barter goods or cash at some point! Congratulations!

uNkNowN ElEmEnt · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: Re: SpringCreekFarm's New Horses

Really awesome! what beauties. do they have names?

Rogozhin · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: Re: SpringCreekFarm's New Horses

Those two are wonderful looking horses! You're living my dream!

Thank you for sharing the pictures!
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SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 891

Thanks again. Here's an update.

I've worked with these horses at the previous owners place before I bought them and they are magnificent. Over the past few days you can see the strong herd mentality in that they were clearly homesick. We sent them back friday night to be involved with some activities over the summer while we truly get ready for them. We own them but we need them to be part of some unique events so that they are well rounded. If this sounds negative in any way because they are gone from here already, it is anything but negative.

If you are thinking of getting into draft horses, please, find a club or group that can mentor you. Leave your ego at the gate. You can get hurt very quickly and if not you, then maybe the horses or both. I'm so grateful to have met the group I'm with because these people want to make good teamsters and teams. The possibilities for me are endless.

They are going to be part of several shows of which I'll be driving them. They'll be part of a "horse power" demonstration later near harvest time.

A horsepower is a device that takes the power derived from horses walking in a circle and transmitting it via a shaft and gearbox to a belt drive that operates a threshing machine. In this particular intstance, there are going to be 10 horses on this drive. My horse club is the coolest thing that ever happened to me!! I'll be sure to get pictures of everything so that those that are interested here at peakoil.com can come along for the ride.

In July 'the girls' will be part of an 8 horse hitch ( 4 + 4 ) that will be pulling a 3 furrow riding plow from western Canada. Between times, I'm going to be building like crazy to get my end of things happening. I have their tie stalls to complete and more fence and hitch rails to construct.

It won't stop raining here in Southern Ontario so it's hard getting the hay off. My hay guy I normally use is gone back to the diamond mines in Northern Canada so I was left scrambling for another way. I have about 20 acres of a mix of light grass, timothy, birds-foot trefoil and some weeds, lol, that will soon be past it's prime. I have a $300 baler a $200 rake and still looking for a wagon for next years crop or even second cutting. I'm sick of relying on others to get my hay in. Time to cross that gap. With older equipment, I can economically gather my hay without breaking the bank.

The horses were in a parade for our Canada day celebration and although I couldn't be there to witness it first hand, they handled the noise, distraction and mayhem quite well. This is very comforting but also curious because they acted a little skiddish and easy to spook while here for 3 days and nights.

I found the one horse hard to lead and both were very nervous when on a lead. This is out of character to what I'm used to working with them. Again, it takes time to adjust. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to harness them up myself so we spent the time mostly grooming and handling them up close trying to bond with them.

I probably wont be on much because of all the work I'm into so you may have to wait for a reply. I just can't be bothered focusing on anything but the future at this point. Even if there isn't one there.

I'll be posting a truly newbie-draft-horse-person's perspective here including my screwups so that this thread is of some actual value to the board, instead of some fluffy exaggerated too good to be true tall-tale.

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1523

SCF, I was a total newb when we got our horses. They came in the trailer with the harness on them, so I took it off and put it in a pile in the barn, having undone too many straps and leaving it in a mess.

I called my old neighbor the next day and asked him to come supervise me harnessing up. His wife came too, as it promised to be good entertainment for them. It was fun for man and beast, but not so much for me. The old mares I"d bought were 14 and 16 years old, and very well trained. They stood placidly while I made my attempts to put on harness. I buckled on the collars, and having a sense of humor, they put their heads down and nibbled grass. The collars slid up to their ears, and they looked woebegone at me. I put the collars back up on their necks and they managed to get green slobbers on my shirt. When I finally got the harness in place, the back straps were still over their tails, clamping their tails firmly to the horse. They wiggled their tails suggestively. I pulled their tails free, and they crapped on my feet. They were enjoying this, while the neighbor laughed heartily.

I found a doubletree set I'd bought at an antique place, all nicely painted.

After a couple false starts, I drove them to the pasture lot where I'd dragged up some small logs with the tractor, and hitched them on with a chain to a light one for a load, just to get the feel of things. They knew I was a newbie, and didn't want to go, but I insisted with a slap of the lines and they lunged into the load, a bit startled. The antique doubletree set was rotten as could be and broke in 2 or 3 places, leaving each horse attached to the load by only one tug. This caused them to both turn in opposite directions, step over each other's harness, and end up in a fine tangled mess. One laid her ears back, head high, snorted and stamped her feet. The other one turned her head slowly in my direction , looking past the blinders and blew her nose at me, loud and long. The message was clear. "What's up back there? This IS your first day on the job, right?"

It got better from there. They were a real pleasure to be around, and no end of entertainment.

A county park opened near us the next year, and we had a rash of people getting lost on the way there. They tried to turn around in our narrow lane, and often backed off the end of the culvert and were stuck. The horses and I pulled out several. One day, I noticed they were both at the fence looking intently down the lane where there proved to be yet another lost soul in our ditch. They watched for a few minutes , then walked purposefully up to the barn, where they were waiting at the tack room when I got there to hitch them up! They knew the job was coming, so it was time to get dressed for it....

Loved every minute of it.
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Heineken

SCF, are you at all comfortable sharing with us the purchase cost of these horses? If not, then by all means keep it to yourself.

I'm just curious about the economics of purchasing, equipping, and feeding two huge horses and managing their ongoing grooming and health needs.

I would be terrified by a responsibility like this. For me just owning a dog is daunting enough!

I feel "unbridled" (ha ha) admiration for you and your enterprise.

I don't know how you have time to post here at all, but I'm sure glad you do.
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roccman

The horses look great !!

Question.

How does a horse owner feed his horses in a carbon constrained world??

I had horses for several years and the hay, shots, shodding, etc were several hundred dollars a month.

This is a serious question...right now I am considering llamas or boar goats as pack animals.

Thanks in advance Smile

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SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 891

The costs associated with keeping horses can be enormous. I'm fortunate in that I have the property to graze them in the summer, and to produce enough hay to say, break even.

I worked my nuts off since 2000 and lived in a self-induced poverty to get my farm paid for and out of debt. Another fortunate thing for me is that my dad gave me half of his share and I only had to buy out my aunt. Now that I'm debt free, I can take these things on.

My mentor told me that it takes about $1000 to keep a horse for a year if you are buying for their needs. Of course that is if you don't have to get a vet involved or some other unforseen problem. I have all that is necessary to keep them and it is just sitting here. I don't deny and I'm grateful that I'm one of the lucky ones. I can hopefully pass that good luck on to others around me willing to get into this.

Heineken, in some ways, I'm an open book. The horses were only $1500 apiece. I only have $3000 tied up in them so far.

So to answer Rocc, I don't know how I'm going to personally take care of them in a post oil world but I'm going to find out. I have a horse drawn hay mower and I'll be buying more horse drawn equipment as time goes on. I'm a very hard worker and can put most young'uns to shame around here at least. Lazy little punks. So I've got the nuts to at least try! Maybe I'm just nuts! I may start to slow down past 50 but that is 8 years off and hopefully my health will hold out until then or longer. After that I should have a better plan to get all this done. Since we don't know what will happen in even the short term. Piss on it. The worst that can happen is that I'll have to get rid of them or something.

I know for sure that I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't already have the barns, land etc.

One of the things I'm going to try while we still have some fuel is a wood cutting business. I have about 60 acres of hardwood carolinian forest that could use a good thinning. Since I'll never burn it all, it makes sense to get this stuff ready for market because you can be sure that there will be a market for firewood. These horses can make that long trek from the bush up with the wood. My work sled will carry a face cord at a time so we'll see how this pans out. They will be expected to earn their keep thats for sure. If you knew me, you understand that I'm not into bling or having horses stand around as farm ornaments.

Like I said, I'll share it all here at the expense of some embarrassment and at the same time, some proud moments.

I am a little nervous about the hay situation. It won't stop raining here and that is not good for horse hay. So it stands in the field until the hot dog days of july get here. The hay will lose some nutritional value, but that can be supplemented with a little grain.

Thanks to everyone for the nice comments and for cheering me on in this. I think I realize in my heart of hearts that if crap gets really bad, the horses will not save me but I'd rather have them and fail because of circumstances beyond my control, than to not have them and live in regret that I did not try.

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1523

roccman,

You undoubtedly know a lot of the following, but for the benefit of others I'll cover some basics.

Heavy horse breeds have thick hooves that don't need to be shod, unless they are to work on paved roads, or on very rocky ground, like a stone quarry. Learn to trim them yourself. Hooves grow like fingernails. You need to inspect feet every day anyway, and clean out wedged small stones, etc. You need a hoof pick, a hoof knife for trimming the frog (heel actually, in the center of the bottom of the hoof), and hoof nippers to trim the length of the hoof wall, then a rasp to smooth the trimming (fingernail file, 18" long). But no shoes for farm work. Light horses feet are too thin to stand hard pulling without shoes, and wear down too fast on pavement without them.

Hay, in a post-carbon world, will need to be done as it was in the pre-carbon world, either cut with a scythe, or horse drawn sickle mower. Then, it is raked, again, with a ground-driven machine pulled by the horses that are going to eat it, and piled onto a wagon loose to be hauled into a barn for dry storage, or stacked outside. Haystacks are a mostly forgotten art, built with a pitch fork, often around a center post to keep it from falling over as it is eaten away. Hay is stacked like a thatched roof, stems oriented from the center outward, to shed water. Plan on some hard, hot work achieving this. My pair of Percherons weighed about 1,600 lbs. each, and would eat around 100 to 120 small square bales of maybe 60 lbs. each in a season, with good pasture lasting up though early December (fescue). That's 3 to 3 1/2 tons for the year. A 7ft. x 14ft. hay wagon, piled 6ft. high with loose hay will be around a ton, if you can stack it straight up the sides. More likely half a ton for a beginner making a rounded stack. (THAT"S why they are called PITCH forks, because you are pitching the hay high onto the wagon, and later on the stack or in the hay mow.

Grain.
Horses are athletes, and as such need their calorie intake adjusted to their energy output. They can do fine in winter with hay and a small amount of grain to produce body heat. When heavy horses are plowing, logging, pulling a slip scraper, all heavy tasks, they need to eat a smaller amount 3 times a day like you. This is something like a quart or two of oats, or corn for energy food. That adds up over a year, so plan on raising grain, about 100 to 150 bushels of corn, or equivalent mix of oats and corn. That means plowing and planting an acre or more per horse to raise that much grain without fertilizer.

I expect some medical needs to be available for a long time to come (hope so), but to keep costs down, obtain the necessary tools to administer worm medicine and antibiotic injections as needed. If you don't let the horse off the farm, you probably won't need vaccines unless there is an outbreak of some kind in your area. Good management, keeping sick animals quarantined, etc., keeps this to a minimum.

Without commercial worm medicines, you are stuck with tobacco or possibly other herbs I'm not aware of. Don't let pastures get eaten too short, to help prevent ingesting worm larvae that infest the ground, and rotate pastures for the same reason.

It can, and has been done for centuries, but it is one helluva lot of work. Good machinery makes it easier.
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SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 891

Yea..what Patience said.

Here's more...

While there's still fossil fuel to burn, smaller engines can be incorporated to run machinery that is pulled behind the horses. These machines are called powered forecarts. The horses pull the forecart, on which is a small engine used to power the PTO and hydraulic remotes. They use a fraction of the fuel that a tractor uses to do the same work.

I've seen some pictures of machinery converted to ground drive, that is they use the forward movement of the machines as a means to run the internal workings buy utilizing the motion of the wheels as a turning force. This adds another load to the horses but you just add another horse when needed. I see a lot of pictures of horses working three abreast and for heaver jobs I've seen 5,6,8 abreast.

I have a horse drawn sickle mower that is currently converted to tractor drawn with a shorter tongue. I may pull it behind a forecart or I'll get the proper 14' tongue for it. It works very well.

My short term plan is to buy a cheap square baler, rake and wagon to use with my tractor until I get more organized with the horse equipment. I'll phase into more horse drawn as time goes on. It could be as early as next year if I get a used powered forecart.

My long term plan is 3 horses, powered forecart, small haybine, rake, small round or square baler

Thanks, Patience, for sharing your experiences in this thread.

roccman