I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
If you're looking for a deterrent, the Keltecs are the way to go, they're light, cheap and reliable.
If you want to step up quite a bit in power, ableit only to a 9mm, I really love my little Kahr 9mm. Less than a pound, very thin, super easy to carry. They're getting expensive so look for a used one if cost is a factor, but 8 rounds of good 9mm in a package that small and light is a great carry gun.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13065 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
I want to complain about trying to buy a gun.
A couple weeks ago my husband and I stopped in to Bass Pro Shops in the city, where they have a large gun department. We had done a lot of research and asked questions here on the board about what to get, and had settled on the Remington 870 Express Combo Deer Gun. At the Bass Pro gun shop, the counterman said, oh they didn't have that one in the store but they had it in stock at the warehouse, and suggested we double check if that was the one we definitely wanted (we were a little wishy washy, not being practiced gun purchasers). He said we could come back in a week or two and order the gun if we wanted. So we left. It was a couple weeks later (today) we returned, having studied the Remington website and settled for sure on the 870 combo. Different counterman spent a long time puzzling over the computer there, and then told us no, they didn't have that gun in stock. He said "you can't just come in here and order any old gun you find on the internet" and told us to come back later when the guy who orders guns for Bass Pro Shops would be in the store. Well, I have to say, I felt like telling the guy "Fark you very much, but we're not coming back again."
On our way home we stopped at the more local, not-a-chain sporting goods and feed store, asked the gun shop guy about the gun, he said he would call Remington about ordering it for us and give us a call back on Monday (Remington's headquarters was closed by that time on a Friday, so he couldn't call today). So, sounds like we should be able to order the gun early next week. I told the guy about our experience at Bass Pro Shop and he said "Well, they're not a real gun shop."
Screw Bass Pro Shops, we never should have wasted our time there. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
Bass Pro doesnt impress me much. They have a great selection of fishing gear, but otherwise I have little use for them.
You'd be best served with a small local shop except some have it in their head their head they are some gift from god and have ridiculous prices. Dont hesitate to flat out give an offer. I usually ask what they want for something, they offer a low price in cash. My Bushy was 950 or 975 and I got it for like 908 cash out the door. Not the best price, but not too bad.
Also, pawn shops generally have FFL licenses so they can do transfers. Find a place on line to buy what you want, get the address of your FFL and have the firearm shipped to him. If the seller doesnt have your dealers license on file (For example, website cheapguns.com doesnt have Ludis Pawn on file) then go to the pawn shop with a SASE (Self addressed stamped envelope) and for cheapguns.com and have him send a copy of his FFL to cheapguns.com. Give it a few days then you can order your gun from cheapguns.com, they send it to Ludis Pawn and you go pick up the firearm and pay a small fee for the FFL's time. Generally the fee is 20 or 25 bucks. I've found as low as 15 and wont pay over 25.
For example, Atlantic Firearms has the 870 Tactical for 200 bucks. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 109 Location: Old Dominion
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
The Reminton 870 if a very relisble platform. I have an "Express Turkey Special" with screw in chokes. I use it for everything from rabbits to deer. At around $260, its a great bargain.
Another firearm that I could not do without is a quality .22 rifle. Cheap ammo, relitively quite, and very accurate within reasonable range, it could (and has) filled the cooking pot.
Of course there are other weapons for concealled carry and to keep the zombies at a distance. Everyong should spend time investigating those and which ones they can afford. _________________ "If everything is going well, you obviously overlooked something."
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
You might also like to look into a thigh "tactical" holster, but I reccomend you try one on first and make sure you like the feel. Keeps it out of the way, but maintains instant accessability.
Muckingfess wrote:
Heineken wrote:
I have a question for this wonderfully erudite board of gun nuts. I've asked it before but don't recall if I got a satisfactory answer.
I am often working outside in fairly remote, wooded places. I worry about "Deliverance"-type scenarios happening to me.
I own two guns, a 9-mm Taurus pistol and a 30-30 Winchester rifle. Neither is practical to carry on my person when I'm working outside. The Taurus is pretty heavy and bulky, and the Winchester is---well, a rifle. Thus, despite owning two guns, it's unlikely I'd have one anywhere within reach at the very moment I was most likely to need it.
This year, while working outside in especially remote places, I've carried the Taurus in a backpack. But it's uncomfortable and hot and the thing bounces around as I work.
My fantasy is a small, light, quality handgun that I would carry in an ankle holster. My upper body and arms would be free and I wouldn't have that weight banging against my waist or pushing against objects I'm working with.
When I asked a local gun dealer about ankle holsters he sort of looked at me and blinked, as though it were a crazy or impractical notion.
Can this fantasy be fulfilled, or is the idea dumb? What weapon would you recommend? What holster? Where would I get them?
Thanks!
I answered a different post re Kel-tec and Ruger LCP
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
ORCA wrote:
The Reminton 870 if a very relisble platform. I have an "Express Turkey Special" with screw in chokes. I use it for everything from rabbits to deer. At around $260, its a great bargain.
Another firearm that I could not do without is a quality .22 rifle. Cheap ammo, relitively quite, and very accurate within reasonable range, it could (and has) filled the cooking pot.
Of course there are other weapons for concealled carry and to keep the zombies at a distance. Everyong should spend time investigating those and which ones they can afford.
Lately I've been thinking real hard about getting an airgun for just that task. For the price of 1 10/22 I could get a decent airgun and a boatload of ammo. For rabbit and squirrel that seems like just the ticket. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6543 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
Spe_cop, I'd never considered a small-of-the-back holster because I didn't even know it existed. Maybe I could get one of those and use it with my 9 mm Taurus PT 92 AF? And that way not have to buy another, smaller gun. Is this considered a very unusual kind of holster, and can you recommend a source? (Will they size it for the pistol?)
I basically like my Taurus, which I've shot maybe 200 times, but I haven't fully stripped it for cleaning yet because the manual isn't clearly written or clearly illustrated. I'm terrified I won't be able to put it back together if I go "all the way." Why the hell can't they have clear, properly illustrated, step-by-step instructions, forward and backward, about such a crucial detail as disassembly/reassembly? I'd buy a gun almost on that basis alone---a good manual.
My gun knowledge is very poor. I admit this without hesitation. I just haven't given guns the time or priority they deserve, and the whole issue seems overwhelmingly complex; truly the province of experts. Too many choices/options.
The funny thing is that when I was in the Army I could field-strip and reassemble an M-16 blindfolded. It came to seem childishly easy. But that was in the early 1970s!
Like Ludi, I tend to feel overwhelmed or intimidated in gun shops; they seem simply to assume good expertise among shoppers. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1185 Location: Central NC
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
I think folks will enjoy this site and learn a lot about bullet penetration.
As the guy says "shooting stuff is fun". Hollywood notwithstanding.
link: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm _________________ "The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
You can get a holster to carry a gun on about any part of your body you would desire. Under the arm like the Secret Service and detecive movies, hip, front of the wait, small of the back, drop leg, and ankle holsters.
Personally I like drop leg holsters myself. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
Heineken, small of the back holsters are very useful IMHO, i personally don´t use them too much because i´m located in a warm place and to keep it concealed you need a jacket, however they are very confortable and handy.
This is one i like very much
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 109 Location: Old Dominion
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
Specop_007 wrote:
ORCA wrote:
The Reminton 870 if a very relisble platform. I have an "Express Turkey Special" with screw in chokes. I use it for everything from rabbits to deer. At around $260, its a great bargain.
Another firearm that I could not do without is a quality .22 rifle. Cheap ammo, relitively quite, and very accurate within reasonable range, it could (and has) filled the cooking pot.
Of course there are other weapons for concealled carry and to keep the zombies at a distance. Everyong should spend time investigating those and which ones they can afford.
Lately I've been thinking real hard about getting an airgun for just that task. For the price of 1 10/22 I could get a decent airgun and a boatload of ammo. For rabbit and squirrel that seems like just the ticket.
No one hardly ever considers using a high-quality air gun, but they should, and for the reasons you listed. There is no better "stealth" gun to put a little protein in the pot or solve those nagging varmit problems without alerting the neighbors. _________________ "If everything is going well, you obviously overlooked something."
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
Phoeberose wrote:
Any recommendations for a handgun for a female living one block away from Detroit (and a bad area of Detroit, might I add)?
Is said female of small frame or large? Recoil sensitive or not? On a budget?
For an "average" lady who is slightly recoil sensitive I would say maybe something in 380 or 9mm. If recoil isnt a problem .45. A .357 bridges both in a sense that you can use .38 Special loads for fun shooting and step up to a .357 Magnum load for social engagements so to speak. I would have no problems with .38 Special for defense either. Problem is with a .357 your limited to a wheelgun, but S&W just released the 327 series which is an 8 shot .357. Its a slick lookin peice, and I surely wouldnt feel undergunned with 8 rounds of .357 Mag and a speed loader.
I personally tend to really lean towards 1 of 2 calibers. Either .45 or 9mm. Reason being ammo is everywhere and bulk ammo is "cheap" (If any ammo is cheap these days). All these other newfangled calibers like the .40, 357 Sig, 10mm etc etc seem like solutions looking for a problem that doesnt exist. And its quite nice to be able to buy a box of cheap ammo to plink with at the range. There is no substitute for experience. Not newfangled calibers or expensive firearms. The only thing that makes a person a better shot is to shoot.
So I would say find a place, if you can, that rents pistols. To start I would say try a S&W MP, Springfield XD, Sig 226 and a Glock.
Start with a 9mm and if thats no problem stgep up to a 45.
My personal social engagements pistol is a Sig P229, 9mm. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6543 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)
eXpat wrote:
Heineken, small of the back holsters are very useful IMHO, i personally don´t use them too much because i´m located in a warm place and to keep it concealed you need a jacket, however they are very confortable and handy.
This is one i like very much
That's a beaut, eXpat. Thanks to all who have steered me toward this type of holster. I think it would be ideal for my needs, since concealment isn't a concern of mine at all.
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