SpringCreekFarm Draft Horse Update

heartandseoul · Tar Sands Joined: May 29, 2008 Posts: 31

Great horses SpringCreek. As a horsewoman for more than 30 years, I have learned that breeding can also be very, very expensive.
I suggest instead of breeding that you find other horses, in case you desire more for your farm. There is such a glut of mid-priced horses on the market, large numbers are heading to Mexico for slaughter. This includes draft horses.
Just my one hay bale's worth. I have three horses - not drafties - and my hay and grain prices have tripled. I use Rice Bran in the winter for added fat which helps my budget.
I do wish you much success with your team!

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1519

roccman,
Yeah, it was "stockpiled". We had enough grazing area that we could let the largest area grow from mid-summer onward. The smaller patches would be grazed short by late fall, when we turned the horses into the big pasture for the winter. We didn't apply fertilizer at all. I had under seeded with Ladino clover, which put nitrogen into the ground with no cost, no effort. Ladino is a short growth, white clover that gets over looked by the horses for a while, if the Fesuce is allowed to grow tall before grazing it. The clover is an energy rich feed, and helped in the fall, up until frost.

Yes, machinery requires inputs, and I think it will eventually become unaffordable to maintain, or just impossible from lack of parts. That puts you back to using a scythe to mow hay, an absolute drudge of a job.

edit: And with a scythe, you are still dependent on the availablity of suitable steel, a blacksmith to mke a blade, and a knowledgable woodworker to make that curved handle. (They bent them green, in a fixture. When dry, they retained the shape.) The blades were originally not sharpened by a whetstone, but by peening, to draw out the edge thin, and work-harden it. Then it was stoned only slightly for a razor edge. This saved precious steel, as less is lost in sharpening, and the edge stayed sharp longer due to the work hardening. I know how this is all done, having tried a bit of it, and have made a sycthe blade from an old car leaf spring in the forge. Very difficult to do without burning it up in the forge. Better buy one if you think you'll need it. Make that several of them.
_________________
Local fix-it guy..

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1519

Hey roccman, how about a heavy pony? We had one years ago, about 350 or 400 lbs.. He could do a LOT of work, including pulling a cart with a couple kids or one adult in it. We used him to cultivate the garden in summer, and he could pull an 8" plow after he was in shape in the spring. Worked well on a 3' x 5' sled, which pulls fairly easily on grass, with a couple hundred pounds on it. He dragged in our firewood for the first year on the farm, until we got horses. Took a long time, but we had kids that enjoyed leading him around. For firewood, it was most efficient to cut pieces the size of a big heavy post, say 100 to 150 lbs., and drag in the piece sans sled. Cut it up later, right in front of the woodshed, which saves some handling, too.

Ponies don't eat as much as horses. It worked in the British Isles from what I've read about. No shoes on him, either!
_________________
Local fix-it guy..

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1395

Re: pack goats.
That's the plan with one little buckling we have right now. He'll be wethered and trained to pull a cart. He's only 7 1/2 weeks old now, but he's gonna be a big boy. Already 32 pounds. His daddy is about 200 lbs, so I know he's going to grow to a good size.

Here's a cart I'm looking at. I would add a small wagon area, perhaps, behind the seat, for hauling things, but otherwise I like the design. It's light, which means the goat would be better able to pull it with a load attached. Problem is, I don't know anyone around here who can build it yet. Patience, if you lived closer, I'd be giving you a call Smile

Kathy

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1519

I just put up a long post on building a cart, and lost it into the ether. CRAP!

Anyway. You can make it out of the rear half of 2 bicycles, use 20" bikes for a goat or pony, and 26" for a horse. More later.
_________________
Local fix-it guy..

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1395

Patience,
I know what you mean about the ether eating a long post. It's happened to me many times. I usually just cuss and shut the computer down when that happens. When you have time to re-create the post, I look forward to reading it.
Kathy

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1519

Kathy,
I've built several pony carts that resemble your plans, but it's easier to start with the back half of 2 bicycles. Remove pedals, crank and crank bearings, chain, and the seat. Now, cut the front half off, just in front of the seat post. This leaves you with a triangle containing the rear wheel. Same with the 2nd bike.

Remove the clamps that held the seat post, down to the bare tube. This is where you attach the shafts. Usually, a piece of 3/4" black pipe will just fit over where the seatpost clamp was. Use a conduit bender for 3/4" RIGID conduit, called a "hickey bender", to bend an S curve in a piece of 3/4" pipe about 6 feet long (varies withe the draft animal). Offset should be about 6". Make 2 shafts alike, and lay aside for now.

Find some tubing that will fit inside where the pedal/crank bearings used to be. 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" conduit should do it, but try for fit. Cut 2 pieces of this about 3 feet long, one of them 2" longer than the other. That's the width of your seat. Take the whole works to the welding shop and have them weld the sorter piece into each crank bearing hole, aligning the wheels to be parallel. Add the other large conduit, after flattening the ends, welding it to the seat post tubes, to make the front rest for your seat. A piece of plywood over these 2 tubes, is you seat base, held on with self tapping screws or stove bolts.

Now weld on the shafts to the seat post tubes, and the basic cart is together. Add some braces from the front 1 1/4" conduit to each shaft, and a couple braces from both 1 1/4" conduits down at an angle to each wheel tube, front and back. These can be 3/8" black pipe. Refer to your plans and copy the bracing.

Add a foot board by welding 2 Ell shapes of 3/4" pipe going from the shafts , down and back to the inside wheel tubes. Span those with a 1 x 8 pine plank, and a 1x 4 on the vertical part , bolted on with 1/4" bolts.

Last item at the welding shop is add a piece of 3/4" pipe between the shafts crossways, located in front of your footboard ells about 6", with a piece of 1/4" x 2" x 4" flat welded to it in the center, horizontally. this gets a 3/8" hole in it for the singletree pivot.

By using the bike frames, you get away from building 2 exactly matched wheel support frames, which is difficult. Take a picture of your plans and your pre-fabbed parts to a welding shop, and it should be a reasonable cost to put it together. Once you have it together, and the animal in harness, you can drill holes for eyebolts to attach the shafts to buggy harness at the backstrap.

Haven't proofread this, and must go for a distant job today. Will try to get a sketch posted when my IT person can take over for computer-challenged Dad. Later.
_________________
Local fix-it guy..

SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 888

It is with a heavy heart that I must confess that yesterday, I backed out of the horse deal.

My hay is standing, overripe in the field with a 90 percent chance that it will not be getting baled and put up. It will not stop raining here. All the local farmers are freaking out because we had a drought last year that made a shortage of hay and this year we have too much rain so that the farmers, including me, cannot get their hay off without it getting rained on. Most bales are not cured and many are moulding in the field.

Speculation on upcoming hay prices puts me right out of the market. I'm not about to start horse farming when the first year, feeding them through the winter is going to cost me a fortune, if I can even find hay.

The old timers said they haven't seen a year like this since 1981 in our parts. It rains every third day here lately. I wish I could send some rain down to Ludi who I believe is living through a dry spell.

This has to be one of the saddest days of my life. I feel like a failure but I do realize that it is beyond my control. In some ways I think I'm being wise by not risking it.

I depend on other people to get my hay off because frankly, it isn't worth it to invest in the equpment. With a post-oil world quickly approaching, I will not go buy a bigger tractor, a big baler, and a haybine to get my hay off. Even if I did, my hay is now crap sitting in the field, overripe and not worth much.

Now the guys that I had lined up to cut and bale my hay are making excuses. That was the kicker. It's over.

I am so upset that I wasn't going to post at all and just disappear, but I did say that I would relay my experiences whether they are good or bad so there ya go. Bad.

I lost a bit of money, and maybe even my good standing in the draft horse club but I can see the writing on the wall whereas the others in the club may not see the cliff coming.

I've killed the dream because I'm not going to go through this again. Maybe I'll look at those pack goats now Rocc, LOL.

On a more optimistic note, I have the whole summer ahead of me to get my firewood in, get the garden back in shape ( I'm ashamed to show it on here it is so neglected ) and maybe relax a little in between. Relaxing may not be possible in years to come.

I've seemed to have misplaced my papers, got any?

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1395

SCF,
So sorry you had to back out of the deal, but it does seem that you made the best choice. I know how excited you were about your horses, but I admire you for making sure you could care for them properly or not getting them at all. That's my pet peeve - people who get animals and only then try to figure out how to care for them when they realize how expensive it can get. I think you made the right choice, and I'm glad you shared it with everyone.

Those of us who feel over our heads from time to time will do well to make a mental note that we are not alone. I'm at a point of trying to figure out which of my goats I plan to sell for the same reason - hay and feed expense.

Thankfully my brother did get some baling equipment this year which will help (as long as we can afford to run it), but I still need to keep my numbers small as feed costs are going through the roof.

It would have been so nice to have the horses, but I have no doubt that in time you'll know you did the right thing.

Chin up. Smile

Oh, and I haven't had papers in years, but if I did, I'd sure help ya out Cool

Kathy

Ludi

Oh I'm so sorry SCF! Sad

_________________
No original ideas are contained in this post.

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5428 Location: Oklahoma

You must be totally heartbroken. I'm very sorry to hear this. But I have to say I admire you for having the wisdom and courage to accept the feedback life is giving you rather than trying to bulldoze your way ahead, and for passing on these experiences so others might benefit from them.

Here's a big virtual hug (which probably isn't worth much, but it's the best I can do), and my condolences.
_________________
"Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young