Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: Re: Bee die off threatens 2008 US Ag disaster
dissimulo wrote:
Although there were great losses in feral bees to to Varroa and tracheal mites, there is a lot of evidence that the resistant bees have survived and are now thriving. Swarm removal is booming business in the south, where bees aren't slowed
Great posts diss. The above was particularly interesting to me, because we got Varroa in NZ a few years back, and I posted a while ago that most of the wild beehives in my area have disappeared. Of course, as soon as I had written that, I found two wild beehives, and I had a conversation with a beekeeper who thought that feral bees were making a comeback against varroa. He reckoned that most bees clean themselves, but that some races clean each other, and that these bees can remove the mites from each other, which self-cleaning bees can't do. Do you know if there's any truth in that? Also, have you read or heard anything about feral bee resistance to varroa, or is your information more anecdotal? Any links or reading material would be appreciated, I find these little critters fascinating. I'd like to have a hive or two someday, but I sure do swell up pretty good when they get hold of me
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Bee die off threatens 2008 US Ag disaster
FoolYap wrote:
Is there any data suggesting pollinators are being affected more strongly in some regions of the nation than others? And, is CCD a global phenomenon, or primarily an American one?
CCD is a global phenomenon, but some areas of the globe are certainly more severely affected. Although, you also must wonder what kind of insect disease surveillance and reporting exists in much of the world. It is possible bees are dying in many places and going unreported.
The US, Europe, Canada, and probably China have reported major bee deaths, which my be CCD related. Since we don't know exactly what CCD is, it is hard to be sure these deaths all have the same cause.
CCD is most prevalent where large-scale apiculture exists (as you might expect). Nobody really knows to what degree it impacts hobbyists, since hobbyists lose a lot of bees under the best of circumstances and nobody really knows to what degree it impacts feral bees, since there is next to no study of feral bees.
FoolYap wrote:
Meanwhile, I don't think I'm seeing any shortage of native bee and wasp species in my gardens this year. I'm seeing a fair number of bumblebees, and lots of solitary bees and wasps. I'm getting pretty good blossom set in vegetables, and my blueberries are just loaded with fruit, as are the wild blackberry brambles all up & down the driveway.
There is no evidence that I'm aware of that CCD impacts any bees other than honeybees, so I would not expect sharp declines in your native pollinators. Of course, native pollinators are on the decline for the the same reason most wildlife is: habitat destruction. Bumblebees like to live in old rodent nests and most people don't want either rodent or bumble bee nests close to their homes.
I'll bet if you watch your blackberries when they flower next year, you see some honeybees - they love blackberry flowers. _________________ With a farewell scream of escaping steam, the boiler bows to the Diesel;
The Iron Horse has run its course and we ride a chromium weasel
-Ogden Nash
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Bee die off threatens 2008 US Ag disaster
yeahbut wrote:
He reckoned that most bees clean themselves, but that some races clean each other, and that these bees can remove the mites from each other, which self-cleaning bees can't do. Do you know if there's any truth in that? Also, have you read or heard anything about feral bee resistance to varroa, or is your information more anecdotal? Any links or reading material would be appreciated, I find these little critters fascinating. I'd like to have a hive or two someday, but I sure do swell up pretty good when they get hold of me
Bees have varying degrees of what is termed "hygienic behavior," which means that they dislodge mites, kick invaders out of the nest, and remove brood that does not appear to be developing correctly. Russian bees and a number of hybrid Russian stocks are considered to be the best at this behavior, while the reliable old Italians are frequently oblivious to bad things happening in the hive.
Most information about feral bees is anecdotal. There is not a lot of bee research to start with and a pretty small percentage of that is focused on feral bees. It is reasonable to think that feral bees may have developed good resistance, based upon the fact that they are still out there and that hobbyists frequently report good results with them. However, it is also possible that, because feral bees are not prevented from behaviors that are inconvenient in the apiary, such as repeated swarming and absconding (which is abandoning the hive when conditions become poor) they are able to interrupt the life cycle of parasites and are healthier simply as a function of being more mobile.
If you want to know more about honeybees, I recommend skipping most of the Internet reading material and starting with The Biology of the Honey Bee, by Winston. The problem with the Internet is the same for any area of knowledge: many people are full of crap and you may have a hard time sorting good information from bad without a good foundation. TBoTHB will not teach you good beekeeping practice, but it will teach you a great deal about the bee, which helps to put everything else you will learn in context.
It is normal to swell up when stung by a bee. So long as you don't have breathing difficulties, you are not allergic - you just have the normal immune reaction to bee venom. If you get stung more often, you will build up a resistance and faster recovery time. I used to take three days to recover from a bee sting. Now it is more like half a day. Plus, if you are careful and willing to always wear a full suit when working the bees, you really can avoid getting stung. Most beekeepers just end up finding the suit more unpleasant than a few stings. I almost always wear a suit, but I live in a cool climate where it is not very bothersome and I have just never gotten comfortable with bees crawling up my pants. I don't wear gloves, so I get stung about once every other time I open a hive. No big deal. _________________ With a farewell scream of escaping steam, the boiler bows to the Diesel;
The Iron Horse has run its course and we ride a chromium weasel
-Ogden Nash
Joined: Sep 04, 2005 Posts: 362 Location: central MA, USA
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Bee die off threatens 2008 US Ag disaster
dissimulo wrote:
FoolYap wrote:
Meanwhile, I don't think I'm seeing any shortage of native bee and wasp species in my gardens this year. I'm seeing a fair number of bumblebees, and lots of solitary bees and wasps. I'm getting pretty good blossom set in vegetables, and my blueberries are just loaded with fruit, as are the wild blackberry brambles all up & down the driveway.
There is no evidence that I'm aware of that CCD impacts any bees other than honeybees, so I would not expect sharp declines in your native pollinators.
Right, I didn't mean to imply that I was worried about the effects of CCD on them, just pointing out that I'm still getting good pollination from native species.
Quote:
Of course, native pollinators are on the decline for the the same reason most wildlife is: habitat destruction. Bumblebees like to live in old rodent nests and most people don't want either rodent or bumble bee nests close to their homes.
I'll bet if you watch your blackberries when they flower next year, you see some honeybees - they love blackberry flowers.
I've never seen any on the blackberries. Plenty of bumblebees and small solitary bees/wasps. (Doesn't mean there never are any honeybees visiting them, just that I haven't seen it Unlike on, say, the asters in autumn.)
Fortunately, we got a lot of "undeveloped" woods and open fields around our neighborhood, still, so native pollinators are finding enough habitat very locally. And as long as I have say in the matter, they'll always find habitat on our acreage at least.
I've been watching to see what flowering ornamentals are particularly pollinator-attractant in the beds around the vegetable & fruit gardens, and trying to plant more of those. In May/June, the spikes of small flowers on Heuchera were popular with small bees and wasps. In August/September, goldenrod is quite popular.
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Bee die off threatens 2008 US Ag disaster
Thanks for the info diss, much appreciated. I'll check out the book. Amongst many other things, PeakOil.com has been the source of some really great reading tips for me all the best from NZ
Joined: Mar 10, 2007 Posts: 88 Location: eastern Washington state
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Bee die off threatens 2008 US Ag disaster
manu wrote:
Thank God I still have four hives and plenty of honey.
Remember never to heat honey.
Is cooking with it okay? What does it do to heat it?
Also, in February, I heard a Public Radio broadcast that discussed the huge dying off of bat populations in the northeast. They didn't know what was causing it at the time of broadcast, but it caused the bats to develop a white, crusty residue around their mouths that prevented them from eating, so they starved to death. The report implied that they weren't even sure how the disease was spreading from cave to cave so quickly. Anyone heard of this?
I'm a hobbyist beekeeper, but I hardly ever see any other bees around anymore. Don't even have any hummingbirds this year, despite the feeders. And, even creepier, I have seen hardly a bat about in the eve. What's it like in your area? _________________ Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, set fire to him, and he'll be warm the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Bee die off threatens 2008 US Ag disaster
ShinyOldLady wrote:
Is cooking with it okay? What does it do to heat it?
Honey has a lot of enzymes, which are probably good for you, but are destroyed by prolonged exposure to 120*F or brief exposure to 160*F.
It is like cooking vegetables; you lose some of the nutrition. There is no harm in cooking with honey. We use it as a sugar substitute for preserving, which certainly is high, prolonged heating. _________________ With a farewell scream of escaping steam, the boiler bows to the Diesel;
The Iron Horse has run its course and we ride a chromium weasel
-Ogden Nash
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Bee die off threatens 2008 US Ag disaster
TheDude wrote:
There are farms in China where they pollinate by hand. Not that this is a scalable solution.
the bee die off, which i believe is caused by pollution directly and/or indirectly, will make some plants particularly useful. e.g. hemp, which is wind-pollinated, and whose seeds are very nutritious. _________________ http://www.LASIKdecision.com/ ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery
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