We are entering the stage where ideology and education about sustainability and living within carrying capacity will be augmented by the reality of identifiable consequences of our overshoot. External consequences like the peaking and decline of below ground energy and commodity resources, above ground environmental degradation of our climate, soils, fisheries and climate will have a profound effect on our culture.
2009 is the year when we start to feel it.
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Founder of the Weather Channel On Global Warming And Gas
Everybody plays with the numbers.
Your own graph shows a high point and then 7/8 years lower than the high point in the last 9.
Trend is up.
Question really is, how much are we pushing it up? _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
From that graph there is no doubt that the 6 year trend is cooling and that the temp has been dropping from a high in 1997.
That doesn't disprove man made global warming, of course, but it does tend to make the pro argument less likely.
EDIT
And we're only up about 0.6 degrees in 140 years of industrial civ?
lAnyway, we're already discussed this.
PO makes GW a moot point.
Like arguing whether the ship is sinking or not sinking because of leaky bilge glue while a category 6 hurricane forms right off the bow. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: "Mad as Hell !"
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Founder of the Weather Channel On Global Warming And Gas
Cashmere wrote:
PO makes GW a moot point.
Like arguing whether the ship is sinking or not sinking because of leaky bilge glue while a category 6 hurricane forms right off the bow.
This is yet another myth. _________________ The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6813 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Founder of the Weather Channel On Global Warming And Gas
So many new and recycled trolls lately.
Five-dollar-a-gallon gasoline in the U.S. is bringing them out of the woodwork. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Founder of the Weather Channel On Global Warming And Gas
Lore wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
PO makes GW a moot point.
Like arguing whether the ship is sinking or not sinking because of leaky bilge glue while a category 6 hurricane forms right off the bow.
This is yet another myth.
Tell me that in 10 years Lore. It's easy for you to dismiss it today, when you can still drive your Toyota Pious to Starbucks for a 4 dollar latte.
In 10 years, when vandals kick in your door and rape your dog, you come and tell me then how pressing GW is.
In 10 years, GW is a dead issue, because the world is going to be in such a panic about oil depletion nobody is going to have enough wealth and spare time to focus on something as uncurrent as GW.
It's like asking the man having a heart attack to start a twice a day flossing regimen. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: "Mad as Hell !"
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Founder of the Weather Channel On Global Warming And Gas
Cashmere wrote:
Tell me that in 10 years Lore. It's easy for you to dismiss it today, when you can still drive your Toyota Pious to Starbucks for a 4 dollar latte.
In 10 years, when vandals kick in your door and rape your dog, you come and tell me then how pressing GW is.
In 10 years, GW is a dead issue, because the world is going to be in such a panic about oil depletion nobody is going to have enough wealth and spare time to focus on something as uncurrent as GW.
It's like asking the man having a heart attack to start a twice a day flossing regimen.
Your nostrams about humanities dismissal of climate change shows your lack of depth in understanding the issues surrounding it.
While PO is a clear and present threat, its development does not stop climate change. We have already exceeded dangerous levels of CO2 emissions which are even now affecting rapid climate change. Peak Oil will only exacerbate the speed at which it will take place as humans haphazardly rush to fill the gap of fossile fuel depleation with other more dangerous emitters of CO2. You only have to listen to the current media wags and their mantra of drill.... drill... drill... to see this. Anything to maintain the status quo.
When major global crop failures occur and the world goes hungry it won't be just because there was a lack of fuel to plant, cultivate, and harvest them.
Further more, every human being that is, or will be born on an already overcrowded planet becomes a little carbon generator and not just through the use of liquid fuels.
Both PO and GW are two sides of the same coin as Aaron once put it.
Oh... and I don't own a dog. _________________ The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
And the unreferenced data points in that graph came from where? I suggest the last set of data points has been altered to show a decline based on the real data below.
Wonder why? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that the countries in the Northern Hemisphere emit much more CO2e than the tropics or the Southern Hemisphere?
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Founder of the Weather Channel On Global Warming And Gas
Cashmere wrote:
Here's another graph . . .
Temp Graph
From that graph there is no doubt that the 6 year trend is cooling and that the temp has been dropping from a high in 1997.
Sorry mate but the last 6 year of data points on your graph are false data. Look at the data point diameters and the line widths. They are so clearly different from the rest of the graph and have been added / modified with something like Photoshop. This is false and deliberately misleading data.
So come clean Cashmere or who so ever you are, where did you get this altered, false and intentionally misleading temperature data? Was it you who deliberately altered the data to mislead gullibilies that there is a cooling event occurring when in actuality this is not so?
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Founder of the Weather Channel On Global Warming And Gas
There are two main groups that put together surface measurements, NASA GISS (USA) and the Hadley Center (UK). (NOAA's NCDC also does global temps, but nobody really uses those.)
NOAA has also sent up a series of satellites with Microwave Sounding Units on them, and those are analyzed for climatic purposes by the University of Alabama-Huntsville and a private company, RSS.
The original poster used NASA GISS data, which is the only one of the four to have 2005 as the warmest year. The others all have the tremendous El Nino year of 1998 as the warmest.
So, what the "skeptics" have done is decided that since '98 is the warmest, that means that we have been "cooling" for 10 years. Of course, that is a load of crap, since you don't start trend analysis on an outlier. Fact is, the the moving average has plateaued a little mid-decade here as it has done many times in the past. Anthropogenic factors did not eliminate natural variability.
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 1044 Location: "Mad as Hell !"
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Founder of the Weather Channel On Global Warming And Gas
Exactly, so next year the previous 10 - year average will look rather different. I guess the deniers will have to extend their sampling range. _________________ The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Oct 23, 2005 Posts: 1883 Location: East of Eden
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Founder of the Weather Channel On Global Warming And Gas
Cashmere wrote:
In 10 years, GW is a dead issue, because the world is going to be in such a panic about oil depletion nobody is going to have enough wealth and spare time to focus on something as uncurrent as GW.
Depends on how much coal gets burned to make up for oil and natural gas depletion; how many of our remaining forests are destroyed for biofuel and, well, just fuel; the pace of the ocean carbon cycle; and above all how much of an effect the reversal of global dimming, brought on by peak oil, will have. Depending on how bad it is, people in 10 years might care very much about global heating, whether they have the wealth to do anything about it or not.
At this point, it's impossible to know whether peak oil will have the fortunate side effect of easing off the accelerator of global heating or not. There is an awful lot of momentum built into the CO2 trajectory, decades worth. And because of global dimming and fuel substitution, peak oil may just have an exacerbating effect on heating in the short term. It will ride right on the knife's edge, and we will have to wait years or even decades to find out whether we can breathe a sigh of relief - or if peak oil will be just the beginning of our woes. Here's hoping for the former. _________________ "If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at the worst." — Thomas Hardy
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