Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
If nitrogen is the macro nutrient that allows bacteria to heat up a compost pile, would it make sense to create a compost heap and plant peas or beans in it? Reason being that legumes affix nitrogen into the soil. Or would those plants rob more P&K out of the humus than it'd be worth?
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
You can try anything that suits your fancy.
While planting peas/beans/legumes in your compost heap may offer additional N for composting, and would eventually be spread around the garden, I think you'd do just as well to plant them in your regular garden spot:
-For all the effort, how much N are we talking about, how big is your heap, how may plants can you start in the heap?
-The N from the legumes is not spread around but concentrated for a particular follow up crop.
-The plants would interfere with turning the pile. You can always start another pile. You can always turn the plants in when you turn the pile they are growing in. If you don't turn the pile, it will still compost, although you may wait a little longer for the finished product.
If you did plant legumes in the compost heap, I would expect you to have some mighty vibrant growth. I suggest you try it, see if it works for you. _________________ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
Commanding_heights I believe the value of legumes is that the bacteria on their root nodes fix atmospheric nitrogen, rather than the nitrogen locked up in soil.
Given that, the peas or beans would not be 'interested' in what you are giving them. Better to plant a nitrogen-hungry plant there. But as Windmills pointed out, a hot compost will kill your plants, or steal nutrients, or have a bad ph.
Better to put the finished material where you need it. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
I get stuff growing in my heap all the time. If it is not turned, the temperatures will reduce in a couple of weeks. It would take that long for roots to reach the depth at which the heat would be damaging. _________________ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
Personally, I plant legumes throughout the garden. This is the simplest way for them to share nitrogen with other plants.
Cutting the legumes for mulch or compost before they have finished producing seeds provides more nitrogen in the material, as much of the nitrogen produced by the root nodules is used by the legumes to produce seeds. If you want to harvest some seeds (such as green beans) you can, but then you can cut the plants down before they finish producing, to get two benefits. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
WildRose wrote:
Ludi, do you think that if a person planted legumes throughout the garden, that would reduce the need to rotate crops somewhat?
I would still rotate, because you don't want to deplete other nutrients besides nitrogen, and you want to avoid concentrating diseases and pests.
I think keeping things moving around a bit is a good plan. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
Why go to all the trouble to dilute your urine before pouring it on the compost? Just pee on your compost pile. I do all the time.
Once I did an experiment. I peed on knotweed (Polygonum) growing in cracks in a sidewalk, in two places. In one place I peed on it first thing in the morning. It died. In the other place I peed on it with dilute afternoon beer pee. It thrived more than the control where I watered it about the same amount as the volume of my pee.
I imagine that my concentrated morning pee plasmolysed it, whereas my dilute beer pee watered it & provided a bit of extra nitrogen without being hypertonic.
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
Commanding_Heights wrote:
If nitrogen is the macro nutrient that allows bacteria to heat up a compost pile, would it make sense to create a compost heap and plant peas or beans in it? Reason being that legumes affix nitrogen into the soil. Or would those plants rob more P&K out of the humus than it'd be worth?
No, this makes no sense. The point of a compost pile is to create a fertile soil for fertlizing/planting. You don't want anything growing in your compost pile. If there is something growing in the pile, its a sign that the pile is no longer aerobically active.
Yes, the legumes will rob the pile of N (and other nutrients). Legumes only fix N when other sources aren't available. In other words they aren't going to fix atmospheric N when soluble or already fixed N is available in the soil matrix. Planting a legume in a fertilized or living soil is not going to create new N stores in that soil, it will in fact deplete them like any other plant.
Legumes are great for low-N or depleted soil because they will then fix atmospheric nitrogen. Taking the green part of the plant and then tilling or reincorporating them into the soil (or put into a compost pile) is where you claim a part of that atmospherically-fixed N.
Remember, any green plant is filled with fixed N. Composting only saves the N from being washed out or lost by biological decomposition.
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1463 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
darwinsdog wrote:
Why go to all the trouble to dilute your urine before pouring it on the compost? Just pee on your compost pile. I do all the time.
Once I did an experiment. I peed on knotweed (Polygonum) growing in cracks in a sidewalk, in two places. In one place I peed on it first thing in the morning. It died. In the other place I peed on it with dilute afternoon beer pee. It thrived more than the control where I watered it about the same amount as the volume of my pee.
I imagine that my concentrated morning pee plasmolysed it, whereas my dilute beer pee watered it & provided a bit of extra nitrogen without being hypertonic.
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
I don't know about peas and beans but I plant my squash on my compost pile. Because the pile is warm, I can plant them earlier than elsewhere in my garden. They survived many a cool night earlier this spring without damage.
After they finish producing, I spread the compost where I need it in my garden and start a new pile. By the time next summer arrives, I'll have a new heap for the next generation of summer squash.
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
Tucker wrote:
I don't know about peas and beans but I plant my squash on my compost pile. Because the pile is warm, I can plant them earlier than elsewhere in my garden. They survived many a cool night earlier this spring without damage.
After they finish producing, I spread the compost where I need it in my garden and start a new pile. By the time next summer arrives, I'll have a new heap for the next generation of summer squash.
Not to mix messages, once compost is cured, one can plant anything in it. Curing is the overwintering part.
I guess at some point, calling it "compost" isn't accurate because it is no longer actively "composting". Organic decay is still going on but not at a level that significantly raises the soil temperature.
Joined: Oct 11, 2005 Posts: 415 Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Plant peas/beans in the compost pile?
darwinsdog wrote:
Why go to all the trouble to dilute your urine before pouring it on the compost? Just pee on your compost pile. I do all the time.
Once I did an experiment. I peed on knotweed (Polygonum) growing in cracks in a sidewalk, in two places. In one place I peed on it first thing in the morning. It died. In the other place I peed on it with dilute afternoon beer pee. It thrived more than the control where I watered it about the same amount as the volume of my pee.
I imagine that my concentrated morning pee plasmolysed it, whereas my dilute beer pee watered it & provided a bit of extra nitrogen without being hypertonic.
Fascinating. I love science experiments.
My concern with the dilution was salt buildup. I don't have any information concerning how urine affects salt in the soil, just vague references that I've read. Until I can find bettere information, I've been spreading the diluted urine around my property.
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