Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Once they work here and are hired for their cheap labor, the immigrants certainly have every right to stay. They do a lot of essential work and often very well.
In the not so far off future, there will no longer be a welcome for new immigrants that provide cheap labor. It's best to assimiliate who is here now for that time to come.
That is looking at the bright side of things: It could be we will head towards a political two-class society and the illegals will be welcome as politically docile. (I don't think I have to remind everyone that the class on top won't be numerically large.)
So if I went into Canada, illegally. I mean jumped the fence and got a job scooping horse crap. That would make me Canadian?
Then lets say I use the resources in Canada(and Canada is in a recession) and I don't pay taxes.
Then lets say that instead of using that money to help the falling apart Canadian economy I send the money back to the midwest.
It isn't that I hate Canada, I just want my family to have food on the table in the US.
But then lets say Canada's economy is getting worse and worse and now the jobs no one wanted to do, the Canadians would do.
Then lets say that there are only so many jobs and people become more desperate, my pay is dropping.
Then lets say the Canadians get violent because they can't put food on the table. Natural human reaction is to blame someone or a group. Theyre going to blame me and the other illegal immigrants for taking the work no one wanted but want now and we arent helping the economy except savig CEO's a bit of cash.
Now lets say my family comes up because the US is getting REALLY bad.
Now Canada is talking about deporting illegal immigrants so whateve jobs and options there are, are for the Canadians.
Now lets say the economy is bad and Canada can't even maintain its current population.
Then I have a kid here, SNAP they become a citizen and I have a reason to stay, even though I am there illegally and my family is there illegally and then I just have this ONE kid who is suddenly a citizen.
Now my family can stay as the economy gets worse in Canada, I never did anything to personally attack Canadians, I am just trying to put food on the table. Now my family can take jobs that Canadians want just to keep the lights on. I'm not going to purchase consumer goods, I'm payed crap and I can only afford food. So I'm not helping the economy either way. The factories that hired illegal aliens because they want to save a few bucks suddenly are in trouble.
Because the economy is crap, and jobs are sparse Canadians stopped purchasing the stuff the company I work for produces and now the industry is closing.
All of these illegal aliens are now out of jobs and same with the Canadians.
Now I still get to stay because my kid is a citizen.
My kid has every right to Canada than a woman who's ancestors where French fur traders in Quebec.
And now it sucks for both of them.
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 109 Location: Old Dominion
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Here's some other reasons we don't want them here.
Just One State
This is only one State...............If this doesn't open your eyes nothing will !
From the L. A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35%of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County. )
(All 10 of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)
Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare. Over 70% of the United States' annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens. _________________ "If everything is going well, you obviously overlooked something."
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
socrates1fan wrote:
I already told you why I am a citizen and why I have to some extant a right to the nation.
We have too many people, we have to change these laws temporarily until the economy improves.
And I've already told you why anyone born there has the same right as you or anyone else, and it was told to you in 1866. Live with it.
Tell me again.
Why does the child of two illegal aliens have the same rights to America as someone who's ancestors have been here for centuries?
Why does this child(and their illegal family) get to stay in America when our country is over populated and our economy is falling apart just as much as someone who's parents have lived here their entire lives, and their parents and their parents.
In economic heaven yes, I'm fine with illegal's kids becoming citizens.
But in a nation set for a second depression we have to worry about our own people.
Joined: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 226 Location: No. Calif.
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
socrates1fan wrote:
So if I went into Canada, illegally. I mean jumped the fence and got a job scooping horse crap. That would make me Canadian?
...
Tell me how the hell that makes sense?
They might as well renege on the citizenship of the Canadian(s) who hire these illegals and profit from them as deport the illegal IMO,who provided their labor and contributed to the well-being of the society. That's just how I look at it, that until you lock-up and deport the people that benefit from that labor, you are just creating an underclass otherwise.
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
jedinvest wrote:
socrates1fan wrote:
So if I went into Canada, illegally. I mean jumped the fence and got a job scooping horse crap. That would make me Canadian?
...
Tell me how the hell that makes sense?
They might as well renege on the citizenship of the Canadian(s) who hire these illegals and profit from them as deport the illegal IMO,who provided their labor and contributed to the well-being of the society. That's just how I look at it, that until you lock-up and deport the people that benefit from that labor, you are just creating an underclass otherwise.
No, it doesn't contribute to society because now a lot of companies hire illegal immigrants purposly in order to save money while many Americans are losing jobs.
You need consumers to support these industries and if you are paying illegals crap they arent spending it on consumer goods, they are spending it on food, water, etc.
Then your industry falls apart. It isn't rocket science as to why cheap illegal labor harms the economy.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1558 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
socrates1fan wrote:
So if I went into Canada, illegally. I mean jumped the fence and got a job scooping horse crap. That would make me Canadian?
No, but if you had a kid here, he would be.
socrates1fan wrote:
But then lets say Canada's economy is getting worse and worse and now the jobs no one wanted to do, the Canadians would do.
Then at that point, the returns garnered from hiring you as an illegal would effectively be nullified, and there'd be no advantage anymore in employing you and risking legal complications, and those jobs would start going to your hypothetically suddenly willing Canadians who can show a birth certificate and a SIN card.
I would imagine the same thing would hold true in your current stomping grounds in the Midwest, should Americans become willing to compete with illegal labour for similar wages.
socrates1fan wrote:
Now lets say my family comes up because the US is getting REALLY bad.
Why would they do that? We just FIRED you, remember? What are you going to feed them once they've swum the Detroit River... blueberries, dandelions and snow?
socrates1fan wrote:
Then I have a kid here, SNAP they become a citizen and I have a reason to stay
The kid does; you don't. Not under Canadian law, anyway. Whether you take the child with you or leave her in the care of someone in Canada is up to you. Of course, the child has the right to return to Canada at any time.
socrates1fan wrote:
Now my family can stay as the economy gets worse in Canada, I never did anything to personally attack Canadians, I am just trying to put food on the table. Now my family can take jobs that Canadians want just to keep the lights on.
Okay, okay... I know the housing bubble burst and all, but is this sh!t actually going on in the United States? Are you currently using some sophisticated telegraph made of a 9-volt battery, a Swiss Army knife spoon and an old soup can to register your opinions on the internet or something? If not, then why are you getting so exorcised about taking away the rights of other people on the basis of stuff that MIGHT happen, somewhere, someday? And if it does, why not worry about it then? Are you sure there isn't something a little darker in your angst that this has to be done NOW NOW NOW?
socrates1fan wrote:
My kid has every right to Canada than a woman who's ancestors where French fur traders in Quebec.
Mine were, and yeah, he does. And I'm proud of my country for that. Why aren't you? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1558 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
ORCA wrote:
40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
First of all, how could they possibly know this if the workers are undocumented and the labour is undeclared? 78% of all statistics are made up on the spot, after all.
Secondly, this would change if they started putting the employers in the jug for three years instead of just rounding up Mexicans and dropping them off next to the crossings in Tijuana. The first thing you do if you want to prevent a fire is deprive it of a source of fuel. I don't see the US doing this. They only want to blame the Mexicans, not the people breaking the law to employ them out of venal greed.
ORCA wrote:
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens; 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens; Over 2/3of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers....
Like I said, start slapping the people employing them in the jug. Watch how fast the trend reverses. As long as the US government keeps targeting the illegals and not the people waving the money at them, the problem's never going to end. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1558 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
socrates1fan wrote:
Nickel wrote:
socrates1fan wrote:
I already told you why I am a citizen and why I have to some extant a right to the nation.
We have too many people, we have to change these laws temporarily until the economy improves.
And I've already told you why anyone born there has the same right as you or anyone else, and it was told to you in 1866. Live with it.
Tell me again.
Fourteenth Amendment. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
socrates1fan wrote:
So if I went into Canada, illegally. I mean jumped the fence and got a job scooping horse crap. That would make me Canadian?
No, but if you had a kid here, he would be.
socrates1fan wrote:
But then lets say Canada's economy is getting worse and worse and now the jobs no one wanted to do, the Canadians would do.
Then at that point, the returns garnered from hiring you as an illegal would effectively be nullified, and there'd be no advantage anymore in employing you and risking legal complications, and those jobs would start going to your hypothetically suddenly willing Canadians who can show a birth certificate and a SIN card.
I would imagine the same thing would hold true in your current stomping grounds in the Midwest, should Americans become willing to compete with illegal labour for similar wages.
socrates1fan wrote:
Now lets say my family comes up because the US is getting REALLY bad.
Why would they do that? We just FIRED you, remember? What are you going to feed them once they've swum the Detroit River... blueberries, dandelions and snow?
socrates1fan wrote:
Then I have a kid here, SNAP they become a citizen and I have a reason to stay
The kid does; you don't. Not under Canadian law, anyway. Whether you take the child with you or leave her in the care of someone in Canada is up to you. Of course, the child has the right to return to Canada at any time.
socrates1fan wrote:
Now my family can stay as the economy gets worse in Canada, I never did anything to personally attack Canadians, I am just trying to put food on the table. Now my family can take jobs that Canadians want just to keep the lights on.
Okay, okay... I know the housing bubble burst and all, but is this sh!t actually going on in the United States? Are you currently using some sophisticated telegraph made of a 9-volt battery, a Swiss Army knife spoon and an old soup can to register your opinions on the internet or something? If not, then why are you getting so exorcised about taking away the rights of other people on the basis of stuff that MIGHT happen, somewhere, someday? And if it does, why not worry about it then? Are you sure there isn't something a little darker in your angst that this has to be done NOW NOW NOW?
socrates1fan wrote:
My kid has every right to Canada than a woman who's ancestors where French fur traders in Quebec.
Mine were, and yeah, he does. And I'm proud of my country for that. Why aren't you?
Depends, maybe employers would choose to keep hiring illegals.
The government here doesn't enforce anything with citizenship and all that.
So pretty much it makes more sense to you for the family to be deported but the kid left behind?
0_o
I'm not seeing how the children of illegals becoming citizens benefits anyone.
Have you been to the US lately?
Here in the midwest jobs are getting harder to find, electric bills are getting higher, food is costing more, the housing market is horrible, transportation costs have gone through the roof, the lower class is suffering very badly, etc
It isn't 1994 down here anymore.
The midwest has always been the industrial and economic feet of the nation, but lack of jobs here is starting to drive people to crime.
I'm proud that my nation has accepted immigrants.
But we have to put a halt on any population coming in other than children being born by Americans(even then producing x-amount of kids should be encouraged) and we really can't handle all of this immigration.
As much as the US government portrays the US as this police of the world, on the civilian level this country is suffering badly.
I think people should be proud of their immigrant ancestors BUT that doesn't mean we should just let everyone come in so they can become Americans generations from now.
I'm sure you wouldn't be so open to illegal's kids staying if Canada was being flooded with illegal aliens.
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1457 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
Pretorian wrote:
Nickel wrote:
Denying citizenship rights will not prevent a single birth;
it will, and plenty of them.
Explain how. Keep in mind that existing laws against undocumented immigration, which ought also to forestall such births, obviously do not.
.
There are a LOT of foreigners who don't want to reside in US illegally or even legally, but wouldnt mind their kid to have a citizenship. illegals also would have less kids if they didnt hope for a free boob to suck from.
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1457 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
Pretorian wrote:
an"]What exactly do I lose by not being a citizen?
What if you were born there and you didn't have that? Presumably, you're documented and you can work in the US, protected by labour laws. Though they can kick you out whenever they want; that's one thing you lose... But suppose the only country you'd ever known denies you the right to vote, work, be educated, generation after generation?
Citizenship has nothing to do with education system in US.
They cannot kick me without me getting convicted in felony and another court hearing after that. ( well may be under Patriot act but how many are kicked like that ? 1, 2 in a year?)
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1558 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Tyler_JC wrote:
We get it, Nickel.
Why are y'all still debating this after 3 pages of redundancy?
Because frankly, I don't believe anyone's thought it through. It's a knee-jerk appeal to emotionalism that replaces a wider appreciation of the good of the nation with a salve of prejudicial irritants. The more I take the opportunity to point it out, quiet honestly, the more likely people are to give it some second thought instead of just nodding with the herd. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
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