Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
The idea that the universe is run by that kind of a sadistic f___ker is beyond my ability to seriously contemplate. _________________ "So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.
I hear leaders quit their lying
I hear babies quit their crying.
I hear soldiers quit their dying, one and all." - OCMS
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Death, how do you feel about it?
It's difficult for me to imagine what part of "me"would survive after death. Not my mind, which is a function of the chemical and electrical signals in my brain, not my personality, an aspect of my mind formed in part by my upbringing.
This I guess goes to that old question "what is the soul?"
I can imagine the components of my body going on to foster new life. And of course in this sense there's no complete death, as many of the bacteria that make up so much of our bodies will continue after "we" die (with disgusting results). But decay may lead to new life. We all have little bits of various dead people in us - do they live on that way?
"My death will be the life of another, Jared - I swear that to you. And you watch, you come find me, because I'll be standing again in these grasses and you'll see me looking through the eyes of the fox and taking the air with the eagle and running in the tracks of the deer."
- from "The Story of B" by Daniel Quinn _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Death, how do you feel about it?
smallpoxgirl wrote:
threadbear wrote:
When we believe life ends with death, it deadens something in us. We interpret other perspectives as fantasy propelled foolishness.
I would love to believe. I try...sometimes harder than others...ultimately I just end up feeling that I'm kidding myself. I feel like I'm making up this story because I don't want to deal with the finality of death.
To Ludi and SPG both--I felt the same way, SPG. Then it dawned on me that disqualifying all evidence that seemed to point to the contrary, due to the fact that I desired it be true wasn't logically rigorous either. I then simply applied the same criteria to this subject that I do to others. It didn't mean I did a flip flop and "believed" the alternative point of view, I simply allowed myself to be exposed to the other point of view and became fairly efficient at separating reasoned argument from debunking.
Ludi, The worst thing for me, when I was younger, was imagining that I and those close to me would never have a better shot at happiness, or normalcy in their lives than the one shot here. My sister, like your's has a severe mental illness, schizophrenia, and her life has been a vast stretch of mild paranoia punctuated with moments of true misery.
It seemed that there had to be a deeper meaning, a deeper purpose and some kind of organizational system beneath this misery. Life seems unfair, but my own intuition tells me, my sister is picking up credits in this particular system that are a net benefit for us all, and she will have her day. One day, perhaps in another life, or another time or realm, this poor broken person will walk the streets, a radiant being, spreading the fruit of her accumulated agony in this life.
Concerning if the impulse toward believing in an afterlife is just positive self talk:
Just because news is good, does not mean that it is false. One of the objective observations that I find... interesting... are the times a resident in a nursing home (my bride works in a nursing home) experience the supernatural.
The best story my wife has of an old man who my wife knew. He was of sound mind and not suffering from any form of clinical mental degradation. One day, out of no where and for the first time, he spoke of a being, an angel that came to him but, he reported that he told the being, "my birthday is next week and everyone will be there. I'll go after my birthday!"
He died (suddenly) the day after his birthday.
Sure there are all kinds of tricks of the mind that might explain the experience but it then seems that those who push those theories a little too hard are just as guilty of wishing an afterlife away as many people are of wishing that one is there to deal with their own fear of death.
We are all subjective and might just as easily be wishing evidence away as wishing evidence into existence. Those trained in the sciences are, perhaps, more inclined to wish evidence outside of a scientific materialist away. Fervent believers are, perhaps, more likely to be guilty of "trying a little too hard" to find evidence of an afterlife. _________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
"The time has come for men to act like men; and for women, well, to act a lot more like men."
-Ma Cur
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Death, how do you feel about it?
wisconsin_cur wrote:
We are all subjective and might just as easily be wishing evidence away as wishing evidence into existence.
I agree. There are so many truly unexplained events in life. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Death, how do you feel about it?
threadbear wrote:
One day, perhaps in another life, or another time or realm, this poor broken person will walk the streets, a radiant being, spreading the fruit of her accumulated agony in this life.
I like to believe that too. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Also some of yall might find it interesting at 32 minutes in _________________ Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destory health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality.
Last edited by mmasters on Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jun 05, 2006 Posts: 247 Location: Over the tracks, left under the overpass, right, third boxcar on the left, ask for Jack
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Death, how do you feel about it?
Thus far, everyone has considered human death alone. Of course, that’s the one of most interest to all of us. But consider that there are thousands of species of living creatures, a number of which are not so far genetically removed from the human race. Who could deny that a large number of these are sentient beings? What of their death? Do they have the prospect of an eternal life or some other such variant? Or is the ‘promise’ of an afterlife, exclusive to those humans who have followed some specific belief, life path and behavioural characteristics? Is there a ‘top ten’ list of sentient beings whose soul, spirit, ectoplasm or whatever you want to call it, lives in a transformative state for ever? We seem to have no difficulty in accepting that an animal death is just that – was alive, now dead. Are humans god’s exceptions, a triumph of creation, or simply an evolved set of animal genes with an extra helical twist or two?
An ancillary thought. You are in the body you have. How come you are not in someone else’s or, god forbid(!), your pet dog’s? Of course, you can never know, but it’s interesting to think about.
Perhaps in good time, all will be revealed. Or not.
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Death, how do you feel about it?
lper100km wrote:
Thus far, everyone has considered human death alone. Of course, that’s the one of most interest to all of us. But consider that there are thousands of species of living creatures, a number of which are not so far genetically removed from the human race. Who could deny that a large number of these are sentient beings? What of their death? Do they have the prospect of an eternal life or some other such variant? Or is the ‘promise’ of an afterlife, exclusive to those humans who have followed some specific belief, life path and behavioural characteristics? Is there a ‘top ten’ list of sentient beings whose soul, spirit, ectoplasm or whatever you want to call it, lives in a transformative state for ever? We seem to have no difficulty in accepting that an animal death is just that – was alive, now dead. Are humans god’s exceptions, a triumph of creation, or simply an evolved set of animal genes with an extra helical twist or two?
An ancillary thought. You are in the body you have. How come you are not in someone else’s or, god forbid(!), your pet dog’s? Of course, you can never know, but it’s interesting to think about.
Perhaps in good time, all will be revealed. Or not.
It will. We're here based on on how we did in a previous life. How we do in this life will determine our next life assignment. _________________ Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destory health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4337 Location: Graceland
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Death, how do you feel about it?
smallpoxgirl wrote:
threadbear wrote:
When we believe life ends with death, it deadens something in us. We interpret other perspectives as fantasy propelled foolishness.
I would love to believe. I try...sometimes harder than others...ultimately I just end up feeling that I'm kidding myself. I feel like I'm making up this story because I don't want to deal with the finality of death.
I find that reminding myself to be grateful for ever having lived is a good way to get out of the mortality funk.
It's all a matter of what you compare it to. A small house is a shack compared to a palace. A small house is a palace compared to a tent.
Losing a loved one and having the opportunity to spend time with the body is a tremendously enlightening experience. It's hard to capture in words, but it's as amazing as watching a baby being born.
We hold on too tight. To our stuff, to our loved ones, and to ourselves. If we practiced letting go and loosening the grip more, I think life would be better for a lot of people.
Fear of death has a way of keeping one from enjoying life. When I'm really in the moment and having fun, I couldn't care less about death.
Cultivating a healthy respect for death (but not fear) can translate into a cautious and deliberate way of living that has a way of keeping death at a distance. I've seen people who didn't respect death and some of them died in really sad and preventable ways.
The death of a really old person who was in pretty good health until the end can actually be sort of inspiring. I spoke at my grandmother's funeral a few years ago. She was 92 when she died. What I basically said was "May we all be as lucky as her. A long happy life with people who love you around until the very end is about as much as a person could ask for." _________________
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Death, how do you feel about it?
mmasters wrote:
How we do in this life will determine our next life assignment.
Hmmm....if that's true, there may be a population explosion of banana slugs in the near future. _________________ "So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.
I hear leaders quit their lying
I hear babies quit their crying.
I hear soldiers quit their dying, one and all." - OCMS
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Death, how do you feel about it?
darwinsdog wrote:
Tell you what, then: Build a spirit trap, catch one & let me photograph, weigh, measure, & dissect it. Then I'll believe they exist.
You are going to try and see, photograph, weigh, ect. the spirit soul with material instruments? The soul is spiritual in nature, that is why it can't be destroyed by anything material. Conciousness is the symptom of the soul. When the soul leaves the body, no more conciousness. But otherwise the rest of the chemicals are still there. A material body without the soul is not very attractive. The reason that people are always searching for ways to stay young is because the soul is forever young. Even in this life the body changes many times but you, the soul remains the same. False ego means you think you are the body, real ego is understanding you are spirit soul.
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