Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Cloud9 wrote:
That was my point. Communism contributed little to advancing the human condition. Having said that; as I recall, the lift capacity of their rockets exceeds ours. Bigger payloads, bigger satellites. Bigger satellites more T.V channels.
I resisted the temptation to say that 100 million AK 47’s in circulation significantly advanced the bargaining position of the little people.
Actually the most basic and profound discoveries are usually made in an environment that is not "stressed" due to "war" (and that also means our "western way" of living where only the strong survive in capitalism).
It is true that during conflict humans tend to rally to a cause too (but then again, that IS a communal effort), which gave us for example Trinity and similar "discoveries".
There is a huge difference between Trade and the exchange of ideas and what we had in the West the last 30 or so years, the latter one is just as distructive as all out communism where nobody owns anything.
The answer lies in the mix.
And btw, Greed is never a good long term strategy, if all your trading partners feel that you screwed them they will stop trading with you. There is a good reason why Greed alone should not be your guding principle.
Last edited by Snowrunner on Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12582 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
nobodypanic wrote:
what things have been produced by 'communism'? fire, the wheel, the bow... who knows how many crucial key inventions communal societies have given us from the past.
Which definition of "communism" are you all talking about? You seem to be talking about very different things.
A totalitarian system of government is very different from an egalitarian community.
You seem to be talking about Marxist Lenninsm where as nobodypanic seems to be talking about a wider definition of communal ownership and responsibility.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12582 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
dorlomin wrote:
You seem to be talking about Marxist Lenninsm where as nobodypanic seems to be talking about a wider definition of communal ownership and responsibility.
I'm not talking about either, personally. "A totalitarian system of government" and "an egalitarian community" are both definitions of the word "communism." That's why I was asking which one folks are talking about, because they are very different. _________________ No original ideas are contained in this post.
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
By my count, Bloomberg TV talked about this news item 23 times on Friday and Saturday.
Quote:
Dow Chemical says it has agreed to buy specialty chemicals maker Rohm and Haas for $78 per share, or more than $15 billion. This is about a $35 a share premium to the closing price on Wednesday. Given the present economic uncertainties, it is difficult to envision a reason to pay this price. Financing for the $15 billion acquisition included a $3 billion equity investment by Berkshire Hathaway and $1 billion from the Kuwait Investment Authority, according to Dow Chemical. Debt financing has been committed by Citi, Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley, acting as financial advisors on the transaction.
This item was never mentioned as of 12:30 PM Saturday?
Quote:
IndyMac Bank's assets were seized by federal regulators on Friday after the mortgage lender succumbed to the pressures of tighter credit, tumbling home prices and rising foreclosures.The bank is the largest regulated thrift to fail and the second largest financial institution to close in U.S. history, regulators said.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5920 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
hope_full wrote:
So, who is next? WaMu or Bank of America?
And what are y'all doing with your dollars these days?
As shortonoil stated in a post about a week ago, there is an enormous amount of unrealized and pending mortgage related losses in the banking/finance industry.
Due to the fact that off-balance sheet derivative positions are usually not marked to market realities, WaMu or B of A can actually be insolvent but no one will know.
Here's a good example. IndyMac had about $32 billion in assets and $1 billion in capital on March 31. Yet on July 11, we are told by the FDIC that IndyMac may have negative capital of $8 billion. That's a drop of $9 billion or 30% in the value of their assets.
If other major banks have to reduce their assets values by 30%, we will witness the worst banking collapse in history. That's why they will do everything to cover up this mess as long as possible - probably with more government assisted takeovers. _________________ It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Converted to hard assets. Leaving them in the bank appears to be either inviting dissaster, or losing access to them while the FDIC sorts out the messes of failed banks. Stuffing them in the mattress isn't much better since they'll just lose their value to inflation as they print FNM and FDM out of failure.
A credit union might be a marginal compromise, but you had better be damn sure you know exactly where their money is invested.
hope_full wrote:
So, who is next? WaMu or Bank of America?
And what are y'all doing with your dollars these days?
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Ludi wrote:
nobodypanic wrote:
what things have been produced by 'communism'? fire, the wheel, the bow... who knows how many crucial key inventions communal societies have given us from the past.
Which definition of "communism" are you all talking about? You seem to be talking about very different things.
A totalitarian system of government is very different from an egalitarian community.
yes indeed i was talking about two different things. i addressed the second example, i.e., ussr, because i was sure that's what he had in mind when he made his original objection and would insist that my first point was, therefore, irrelevant.
however, i think that i made a reasonable case that under either, non-market system, contributions to the progress of man were made.
further, i wanted to imply that i don't really accept the modern communist state as the definitive example of communism. in fact, i am sure one could argue that, for instance, the soviet union was about as communist as the democratic republic of north korea is democratic.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12582 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
nobodypanic wrote:
further, i wanted to imply that i don't really accept the modern communist state as the definitive example of communism. in fact, i am sure one could argue that, for instance, the soviet union was about as communist as the democratic republic of north korea is democratic.
I agree, it's just confusing for many people when you use the less common meaning of a word. _________________ No original ideas are contained in this post.
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
DantesPeak wrote:
hope_full wrote:
So, who is next? WaMu or Bank of America?
And what are y'all doing with your dollars these days?
As shortonoil stated in a post about a week ago, there is an enormous amount of unrealized and pending mortgage related losses in the banking/finance industry.
Due to the fact that off-balance sheet derivative positions are usually not marked to market realities, WaMu or B of A can actually be insolvent but no one will know.
Here's a good example. IndyMac had about $32 billion in assets and $1 billion in capital on March 31. Yet on July 11, we are told by the FDIC that IndyMac may have negative capital of $8 billion. That's a drop of $9 billion or 30% in the value of their assets.
If other major banks have to reduce their assets values by 30%, we will witness the worst banking collapse in history. That's why they will do everything to cover up this mess as long as possible - probably with more government assisted takeovers.
but how long do you think they can do that? and isn't it the case that every time they do save a bank, they devalue the currency in the process? at what point do we become like weimar germany over here?
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3765 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
hope_full wrote:
So, who is next? WaMu or Bank of America?
And what are y'all doing with your dollars these days?
It's in both Wamu and Bank of America _________________ Paranoia is demonstrated to be an infectious disease, and stupidity plus the internet its major vector.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3765 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
nobodypanic wrote:
further, i wanted to imply that i don't really accept the modern communist state as the definitive example of communism. in fact, i am sure one could argue that, for instance, the soviet union was about as communist as the democratic republic of north korea is democratic.
I know a lot of people like to talk about how unsustainable capitalism is, but at least it HAS a boom cycle. Communism in its ideal form hasn't really ever caught on. _________________ Paranoia is demonstrated to be an infectious disease, and stupidity plus the internet its major vector.
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
DantesPeak said:
Quote:
That's why they will do everything to cover up this mess as long as possible - probably with more government assisted takeovers.
We are hearing a litany of dialogue, substantiated by government figures, concerning the integrity of Fannie and Freddie’s book. Some simple calculations easily show that the asset base that backs their bonds and mortgages is depreciating by over a trillion $ a year.
Everything possible is being done to cover up this mess, and in the process they are destroying the confidence in the system’s integrity that is necessary to maintain it. Like the MBS and ARB bond market, once that confidence is lost, it will probably never again be regained. This destruction of the economic/financial system, for the benefit of a short term gain for a select few, must be the most myopic behavior that has ever occurred in the history of finance.
They have pulled the plug on the jinn’s bottle, and like most mythologies instruct, nothing but decimation will ever come of it.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
