Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
NugBlazer wrote:
I've read through this whole thread, and the main thing I see is that many people seem to have great difficulty getting their heads around what conservation truely means. Let me take a shot at helping them to understand (before Monte's head explodes, lol).
Couldn't have said it better. Good post. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
"There is no "waste" that isn't somebody's livelyhood.
Cut the waste; you cut jobs, "
So what are you guys saying?
Monte's quote above states the obvious: so what? This is how our entire economy functions! Company "A" produces good "B" at cost "C". Company "D" sees an opportunity to produce a comparable good at cost "E". "A" loses market share (i.e. jobs) and has to figure out how to deal with it. Company "D" is able to produce their product at a lower cost because they're more efficient i.e. they've cut waste.
Then Nugblazer tells us that the only true way to conserve is to not spend any money i.e. total power-down i.e. return to some way of life that might have existed thousands of years ago?? Then Monte agrees.
So which is it? Keep the waste and jobs or powerdown?
Joined: Nov 25, 2006 Posts: 1361 Location: New York area
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
MonteQuest wrote:
Narz wrote:
So that means it's case closed?
Dare not question the oracle, eh?
Much easier to attack the messenger than refute the studies, isn't it?
MonteQuest wrote:
Narz wrote:
And I assume you mean articles rather than studies.
Studies. Peer-reviewed studies published in scientific journals.
Again, not attacking you (you seem to be hypersensitive to perceived attacks), actually I'm attacking Ludi's idea that because a discussion has been had once it can't be had again.
Do you have a bookmarked list of peer-reviewed articles on overshoot? I'd be curious to see them but don't feel like leafing thru 12,000 posts. _________________ My PO Amazon store (shameless plug).
Joined: Nov 25, 2006 Posts: 1361 Location: New York area
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
Ludi wrote:
Narz wrote:
I'm attacking Ludi's idea that because a discussion has been had once it can't be had again.
Some kind of mindreader, hey? No, I didn't have that idea. I said Monte had posted links to studies on carrying capacity a bozillion times already.
Discuss away!
I'd like to see the studies. Without digging thru miles of pages of threads.
Monte might do well to sticky some of this stuff rather than dismissing anyone who hasn't read it all (all scattered all of the net).
Seriously, I'd like to read it, not to play the point, counterpoint game for 18 more pages but just to see the methodology behind it. _________________ My PO Amazon store (shameless plug).
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
Frank wrote:
"There is no "waste" that isn't somebody's livelyhood.
Cut the waste; you cut jobs, "
So what are you guys saying?
Monte's quote above states the obvious: so what? This is how our entire economy functions!
Connect the dots. Cutting the waste is in order to meet supply. Company D cannot replace company A because the energy isn't there to replace A. Company D had to cut waste just to meet supply as well.
Where does Company D get the energy to replace A?
Quote:
So which is it? Keep the waste and jobs or powerdown?
Cut the waste, powerdown, keep the jobs, but accept a reduction in wages and the standard of living every year until sustainable. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Joined: Oct 08, 2005 Posts: 45 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
MonteQuest wrote:
NugBlazer wrote:
I've read through this whole thread, and the main thing I see is that many people seem to have great difficulty getting their heads around what conservation truely means. Let me take a shot at helping them to understand (before Monte's head explodes, lol).
Couldn't have said it better. Good post.
Your head feel any better? lol _________________ I tread lightly as I can on the Earth.
MonteQuest, "Same thing."
yesplease, "What's the same thing?"
MonteQuest, "You and a troll."
_________________
I used to post a link that listed them, but it is no longer active.
This is peer-reviewed:
Quote:
In the journal, Politics and the Life Sciences of September 1997, Professor Kenneth Smail made the case for dramatically reducing human numbers, and leading commentators in the field of population and development contributed their views on it.
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
Narz wrote:
BTW, Monte. Do you eat meat? Just curious.
About as much as Asians do. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
MattS wrote:
Could be. Then again, people have been predicting the end of the world since the beginning of the world, and here we are debating it on the internet.
You think the first people who declared the world was going to end soon thought we would be here still talking about it, these many years,decades,centuries later?
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