Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 2024 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Jim Sinclair has been warning for some time now that the system is broken and that people need to 1) hold physical metal and 2) take share certificates (cut intermediaries)
He now went a step further with this; (My emphasis)
Quote:
The financial system is broken and all that can be done by the US Federal Reserve and the US Treasury is monetize all major financial entities.
The reason that all this has happened is the $1.114 QUADRILLION dollar mountain of crap paper made of unfunded, unlisted, unregulated and non-transparent financial specific performance contracts called OTC derivatives.
Those that create and peddle OTC derivatives are guilty of financial murder one.
I cannot imagine you reading the information above and failing to protect yourself, but knowing mankind, I doubt many did.
You should hold no dollars except what is required to pay bills for six months. You know now that FDIC is grossly under-financed compared to potential claims. Get all your money out of financial entities now before you have to stand in line to get it. Screw interest rates. Keep six months of cash in your safety deposit box, invest the balance in short term treasuries of other currencies.
You should put a minimum 1/3 of your LIQUID net worth in gold and gold equivalents.
You surely know by now that SIPC is grossly under-financed when it comes to covering potential claims. The secondary insurance held by brokers is written to them for you, but not for you.
There are three ways you can protect your securities:
Have your shares delivered to you as paper shares registered in your name. Have your shares put in direct registration as a book entry at the transfer agent of the company you are invested in.
After consulting a tax counsel and receiving their blessing, order your retirement 401K, Roth and other like investments transferred into the name of your Trust Company, for the benefit of you.
Failing to do this because your broker disagrees or makes a fuss is you becoming complacent.
The basic thesis is please distance yourself and your assets from financial agents.
I got this via mail, but you can also find it on his website jsmineset _________________ It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" - Nancy Pelosi
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
DantesPeak said:
Quote:
Congress appears to be moving slowly towards bailing out F & F. I don't think they want to bail out the shareholders.
Even though the sub-prime market appears to be bottoming to some extent (there is a growing shortage of people to default) the Alt-A and prime markets, which are ten times larger, are just beginning to pick up a full head of steam.
This mess is not ending, it is just beginning. Congress can’t bail out F&F even if it wanted to, and it seems likely that they know that. This is all political rhetoric, and like all political rhetoric it will come to nothing. The share holders and the bond holders of F&F are toast. The game right now is to make sure that no one really knows this, yet.
This is idle dialogue to appease the SWF and foreign central banks that are on the line for much of F&F’s debt. Congress will dittle and daddle until this thing explodes into a trillion $ financial mushroom cloud. Then they will claim that they did everything possible to prevent it.
Joined: Dec 06, 2005 Posts: 887 Location: Stopped at the border.
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
shortonoil wrote:
DantesPeak said:
Quote:
Congress appears to be moving slowly towards bailing out F & F. I don't think they want to bail out the shareholders.
Even though the sub-prime market appears to be bottoming to some extent (there is a growing shortage of people to default) the Alt-A and prime markets, which are ten times larger, are just beginning to pick up a full head of steam.
This mess is not ending, it is just beginning. Congress can’t bail out F&F even if it wanted to, and it seems likely that they know that. This is all political rhetoric, and like all political rhetoric it will come to nothing. The share holders and the bond holders of F&F are toast. The game right now is to make sure that no one really knows this, yet.
This is idle dialogue to appease the SWF and foreign central banks that are on the line for much of F&F’s debt. Congress will dittle and daddle until this thing explodes into a trillion $ financial mushroom cloud. Then they will claim that they did everything possible to prevent it.
Politics as usual, is the name of the game!
Sure they can bail F&F out. All they need to do is get the money necessary from the ME and Asia by means of selling them special bonds or real estate owning packages, take your pick or make a suggestion. They can package the risk in recognizable sections and make promises of limited sovereignty as to having rights in local voting. The collateral will be all of the sub-prime property that the Fed, by means of bailout transfer of title, now has in addition to what needs to go on the block directly in order to fund the scheme.
The potential to deflate the supply of dollars that are expatriated and to effect change in the long term value of the dollar against especially the euro makes it tempting. There would be even more financial sector pain, but hey, it is already so bad that a little more couldn't hurt. That pain might go a long way toward keeping the impulse to over-consume that prevails even yet in the US at bay. _________________ "Hope encourages men to take risks; men in a strong position may follow her without ruin, if not without loss. But when they stake all that they have to the last coin (for she is a spendthrift), she reveals her real self in the hour of failure."
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
RonMN wrote:
Miki Wrote: Silver eventually will make a much stronger move than gold.
IMHO I totally agree with you Micki...I am pretty heavy silver myself.
Silver is better than paper, no doubt, but it's value lies partly in it's industrial utility. In a global recession, wouldn't this actually weigh against it? Just asking---I really don't know much about silver, am biased against it, since my parents lost a good 50% of their savings buying gold a few decades ago. Their reasons for buying it were "sterling", and they appeared to do everything right, but didn't know the Hunt bros had cornered the market and were pumping the price.
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2691 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
threadbear Wrote: In a global recession, wouldn't this actually weigh against it?
Yes, I would guess it would, That's why I wouldn't put more than 10% of my net worth into any one thing...However, since Ben started trading US treasuries for mortgage debt a few months ago, there is really no place safe...gotta do the best ya can with the knowledge you have
Getting out of debt is still the #1 defense IMO.
<edit> Don't forget that some of silvers "industrial applications" are necessities (like water purification & on hospital bandages due to its anti-microbial properties...and nothing we know of conducts electricity better). _________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Last edited by RonMN on Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Iaato wrote:
The beginning of the end for America's AAA rating?
You will probably agree that we will not see a formal downgrade any time soon, the ratings agencies are businesses and a guest does not foul his host's carpet. We have seen that much already. But in the fullness of time it can trade as AA, if that is the value the market places on it.
threadbear wrote:
Silver is better than paper, no doubt, but it's value lies partly in it's industrial utility. In a global recession, wouldn't this actually weigh against it?
Half its use is industrial. Its continued strength, especially with the advent of digital photography and rapidly increasing production, owes as much to the infrastructure boom as anything else. It might rise on the back of a financial panic, but I doubt that will hold if the world then slides into a depression that halts the further industrialisation of India and China and slows that of the ME Gulf states and Russia. And I doubt demand for ornaments and silverware will continue to rise when stainless steel is all people can afford. It is reasonable to assume that some of that growth was discretionary/aspirational and fuelled by the credit bubble. Short-term, you might decide to take the risk. Long-term, the stuff we talk about here would suggest that position will be diving deeper underwater year after year. Widely held assumptions can change quickly here. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2691 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Quote:
Treasury Department has only days to act before foreign patience runs out,
<snip>
Some financial experts warned that Treasury has only 2-3 days to put real money behind its promises to back up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac "or face a dangerous crisis that could spiral out of control," the paper reported.
Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 4351 Location: The Great Sonoran Desert
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
threadbear wrote:
RonMN wrote:
Miki Wrote: Silver eventually will make a much stronger move than gold.
IMHO I totally agree with you Micki...I am pretty heavy silver myself.
Silver is better than paper, no doubt, but it's value lies partly in it's industrial utility. In a global recession, wouldn't this actually weigh against it? Just asking---I really don't know much about silver, am biased against it, since my parents lost a good 50% of their savings buying gold a few decades ago. Their reasons for buying it were "sterling", and they appeared to do everything right, but didn't know the Hunt bros had cornered the market and were pumping the price.
S:G Ratio has historically been around 1:15
Currently it is around 1:50
Silver should be $65/oz today. _________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
"... hope is a rotten-thighed whore" Niko Kazantzakis
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
This is how I interpret silver at the moment:
Positives:
1. More silver demand than being produced : LINK
2. Silver price manipulation by several big players keeps price artifically low currently: LINK
3. Less physical silver than gold above ground : LINK
4. Silver has been accepted as money continuously for over 4000 years.
5. There is relatively very little silver in private hands
6. Silver holds its relative value well in an inflationary environment (and the Fed is definitely pursuing an inflationary policy)
7. It is a finite resource
8. The dollar is tanking, which is good for PM value
9. There is quite a lot of financial turmoil and war on the horizon, also good for PMs
Negatives:
1. Must hold it physically
2. Volume and weight / value ratio is high
3. Devalues during deflation
4. Can be confiscated
5. Market trading and pricing can be halted in an emergency, which is when the price of silver will increase the most
6. Subject to speculation by big players
7. Volatile market
Last edited by Jotapay on Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:06 pm; edited 3 times in total
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Threadbear,
Yeah, I don't trust the PM markets either. If I did, I'd own some silver. As it is, I prefer to do other things like hedging way ahead on my cooking gas, business stocks, and personal stuff. It's impossible for me to tell who may be manipulating, why, how, or what direction and when. All good ways to lose money betting on a rigged game. _________________ Local fix-it guy..
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
roccman wrote:
S:G Ratio has historically been around 1:15
Currently it is around 1:50
Silver should be $65/oz today.
Or gold should be around $300/oz.
That is a question, isn't it? Once equities crash, will money flee into gold, or out of it to plug black holes? I look at that hockey stick chart and cannot believe it has any sane basis in reality. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Twilight wrote:
That is a question, isn't it? Once equities crash, will money flee into gold, or out of it to plug black holes? I look at that hockey stick chart and cannot believe it has any sane basis in reality.
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Jotapay wrote:
Twilight wrote:
That is a question, isn't it? Once equities crash, will money flee into gold, or out of it to plug black holes? I look at that hockey stick chart and cannot believe it has any sane basis in reality.
It looks just like the oil price chart.
Without the intrinsic value. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
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