Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
CarlosFerreira wrote:
vilemerchant wrote:
He's right, there is plenty of oil left. We just won't be able to get it out of the ground and into our cars/trucks/ships/planes fast enough to keep up with demand.
This is pretty much the incontrovertible problem. As pstarr pointed, powerdown seems the first sensible step, then a genuine investment in renewable, varied power sources.
Despair drives people into unreasonable ideas. Nuclear power is - in MY personal opinion - one of those ideas. Same with heavy sands.
This might give me a tree-hugger reputation, but one of the main problems with tar sands is the environmental impact: it's nuts! We'll HAVE to live in THIS planet, you know?
Who cares about Alberta anyways? Let's trash it so rich people's villas are fully powered up!
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Concerned1 wrote:
You know, I've been coming here for a while now, trying to stay up on things. And I've been reading everyone's comments to see what they have to say. I think a lot of people who comment here are genuinely concerned about the future of energy. They're comments are genuine and their fears understandable. But I'm disturbed by the number of comments I've been reading by people who knock every bit of good news that comes along. Honestly, it almost sounds as if some of those here actually want things to get worse, are looking for bad news, and will denounce every bit of good news that gets posted as ridiculous. What do you want? If the point is to find solutions, good and well. Isn't that what it's all about? But if the point is to suggest that there's nothing we can do, everything is going to hell in a handbasket and we might as well just blow our heads off, I mean, what's the point of that? If anyone here actually wants things to get worse, whoa, scary!
Someone told me that from the IP addresses of some of these people he can tell many of them are in Iran, North Korea and Pakistan. So they're spies spreading anti-western propaganda. pstarr is in North Korea.
Check out this article here. You can see that a lot of heavy oil is exported to the USA from Canada.
Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 890 Location: Alif Lam Mim
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Quote:
Someone told me that from the IP addresses of some of these people he can tell many of them are in Iran, North Korea and Pakistan.
Someone told me that you're a doucebag who likes to have sex with baby pigs while wearing a Spiderman costume.
Someone is so cool. He lets you say and do anything you want on the internet. _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Joined: May 13, 2007 Posts: 656 Location: Athabasca, Alberta
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
I have to agree with the premise that there is plenty of oil, however there is not plenty of cheap oil. _________________ Appuis ait fabrum esse suae quemque fortunae.
Alias Redneck
For several decades, the Democratic Party has pursued policies designed to drive up the cost of petroleum, and therefore gas at the pump. Remarkably, the Democrats don't seem to have taken much of a political hit from the current spike in gas prices. Probably that's because most people don't realize how different the two parties' energy policies have been.
Congressman Roy Blunt put together these data to highlight the differences between House Republicans and House Democrats on energy policy:
ANWR Exploration House Republicans: 91% Supported House Democrats: 86% Opposed
Coal-to-Liquid
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 78% Opposed
Oil Shale Exploration
House Republicans: 90% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed
Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
House Republicans: 81% Supported
House Democrats: 83% Opposed
Refinery Increased Capacity
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 96% Opposed
SUMMARY
91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of American-made oil and gas.
86% of House Democrats have historically voted against increasing the production of American-made oil and gas.
PAUL adds: It's useful to keep this sort of thing in mind when we hear (on something like a daily basis these days) that the Republicans have run out of ideas or that Republican ideas didn't work. The truth is that most major Republican ideas weren't tried because the Democrats blocked them. Increasing the domestic production of oil and gas (a move so obvious it barely meets the standard for being an idea) is hardly the only example. Social security reform and school choice also come quickly to mind. Republican-backed policies for increasing the number of Americans with health insurance were also blocked by Democrats. And so forth.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
pstarr wrote:
Concerned1 wrote:
You know, I've been coming here for a while now, trying to stay up on things. And I've been reading everyone's comments to see what they have to say. I think a lot of people who comment here are genuinely concerned about the future of energy. They're comments are genuine and their fears understandable. But I'm disturbed by the number of comments I've been reading by people who knock every bit of good news that comes along. Honestly, it almost sounds as if some of those here actually want things to get worse, are looking for bad news, and will denounce every bit of good news that gets posted as ridiculous. What do you want? If the point is to find solutions, good and well. Isn't that what it's all about? But if the point is to suggest that there's nothing we can do, everything is going to hell in a handbasket and we might as well just blow our heads off, I mean, what's the point of that? If anyone here actually wants things to get worse, whoa, scary!
Concerned1, it's difficult to read constant, chronic pessimism. It is especially unpleasant when it is couched, as it often is here, in cynical and abusive language. If your own life has any meaning to you personally than the demise of the world that created you should bring grief, not joy. Apparently many here do not really like their own lives.
However false hope is worse. It leaves one ill-prepared and is often a cover for scams or other self-serving agendas. I don't know what the articles say, but I am familiar enough with these technologies from my own research to know that at best they are horrible to the environment and impossible to scale up.
Vogelzang is a troll with an agenda and I am sure his post is a complete joke. Don't waste your time reading it. I didn't There are possible solutions to peak oil but there do not involve trashing our only planet and expecting our car culture to continue. We need to powerdown, transform out transportation system, and rethink and rewire suburbia. Think that can happen in time?
Good luck
I understand your frustration, Concerned1.
I mostly agree with pstarr's response.
Some of us are fed up with goofy optimism and lies, so we come here and bang the drum for truth. Yes, it can sound ugly.
A few people here really do seem to welcome the human and animal suffering that would accompany collapse.
Others may simply feel that we have to pass through the pain before things get better, so let's bring it on and get it over with.
Some people, including myself, would enjoy watching Big Brother get egg on his face.
Let's face it, the world's media have pretty much ignored the doomer positions, all of which are now incontravertibly supported by hard facts.
I'm prepared to be more optimistic, but first I have to see recognition---just mere recognition---by the establishment of the true solutions. The true solutions involve drastic, painful, and self-sacrificial measures like controlling the human population and abandoning the current growth-centric economic model. The world's establishment continues to rigidly oppose such measures; in fact, the mainstream media won't even mention them---they're taboo.
Until we get serious and stop playing around with half-measures designed to "keep the party going," our situation is hopeless and the stories about switchgrass power etc., etc., deserve to be trashed. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Jul 02, 2008 Posts: 591 Location: Canterbury, UK
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Heineken wrote:
Let's face it, the world's media have pretty much ignored the doomer positions, all of which are now incontravertibly supported by hard facts.
I'm prepared to be more optimistic, but first I have to see recognition---just mere recognition---by the establishment of the true solutions. The true solutions involve drastic, painful, and self-sacrificial measures like controlling the human population and abandoning the current growth-centric economic model. The world's establishment continues to rigidly oppose such measures; in fact, the mainstream media won't even mention them---they're taboo.
I'm recognizing the vocabulary; somebody's been reading Limits to Growth, right?
We all have a model of what's going to happen. Most of these models are seriously doomers. The models in Limits are mostly like that; unchecked growth leads to collapse.
Thing is, these models only reflect the clash of unchecked growth on a limited-resource world. They do not reflect social and political intervention to overcome problems. Meaning, we can only count on ourselves and our politicians to overcome this problem, because mere economy won't do. So, until we all see action being taken, pessimism is the result.
Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 890 Location: Alif Lam Mim
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Quote:
You're obviously an Islamic terrorist doing jihad on the internet. We will defeat you and all Al Qaeda members.
Oh no. You found me out.
So how are you going to "defeat" me? With your blathering stupidity? _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
CarlosFerreira wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Let's face it, the world's media have pretty much ignored the doomer positions, all of which are now incontravertibly supported by hard facts.
I'm prepared to be more optimistic, but first I have to see recognition---just mere recognition---by the establishment of the true solutions. The true solutions involve drastic, painful, and self-sacrificial measures like controlling the human population and abandoning the current growth-centric economic model. The world's establishment continues to rigidly oppose such measures; in fact, the mainstream media won't even mention them---they're taboo.
I'm recognizing the vocabulary; somebody's been reading Limits to Growth, right?
We all have a model of what's going to happen. Most of these models are seriously doomers. The models in Limits are mostly like that; unchecked growth leads to collapse.
Thing is, these models only reflect the clash of unchecked growth on a limited-resource world. They do not reflect social and political intervention to overcome problems. Meaning, we can only count on ourselves and our politicians to overcome this problem, because mere economy won't do. So, until we all see action being taken, pessimism is the result.
So you see no limit to growth on a finite planet? So you define 'growth' in an intellectual, spiritual, or cultural context? I define it physically. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: Jul 02, 2008 Posts: 591 Location: Canterbury, UK
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
pstarr wrote:
So you see no limit to growth on a finite planet? So you define 'growth' in an intellectual, spiritual, or cultural context? I define it physically.
No, I see that physical limit, and do believe that the way it's all going, doom awaits us all. We're not used, nor ready to deal with physical (real) limits. The only positive possibility I see to dodge collapse is societal change, driving political measures to stop unchecked growth. That's the best-case-scenario. Only reason why I'm not an all-out doomer, moving to the woods with a Winchester gun and a bucket-load of cartridges.
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There are possible solutions to peak oil but there do not involve trashing our only planet and expecting our car culture to continue. We need to powerdown, transform out transportation system, and rethink and rewire suburbia. Think that can happen in time?
ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
