Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
My personal opinion on health insurance is why the hell does an employer need to distribute it? I don't see them offering me auto insurance...?
You want to see some 'welfare' health insurance? Go look at the local government officials health plan. Talk about perks to a job.
I've thought a lot along the lines of SPG lately. As we continue down this slippery slope towards god knows where, what will happen to health care as it stands today? With a reduced workforce, that means less jobs (equals less insured people). Also as people's income is continued to be stretched, they'll start opting out of their coverage. All this means LESS MONEY FOR BIG HOSPITALS? No wonder why they want universal health care, they want big government to pick up the tab when the masses our unemployed.
Ive got a friend who is 21 and recently passed her RN licensing (or whatever its called...some type of "boards"). She currently makes $28/hr giving people medication they probably don't need. _________________ Clothing should be optional.
64 too much for wifes health? But you wont say a word when the plumber hands you a bill? Or your when your mechanic helps you from keeping your hands greasy? The nurse that you paid for was not the tech that asked her if she needed anything. The nurse was the one who made damn sure your wife was well and safe. Not to mention the other nurses that made damn sure your baby was safe......and when I say safe, I mean from the moment the tired(sometimes), young, (sometimes) physician wrote a stupid order that 10 people could not read much less interpret and made damn sure the right med was given at the right time in the right amount........I could go on but I will spare the others.......64 is squat for the education and sacrifice for being a nurse. Done.
anthem wrote:
I tend to agree with SmallPoxGirl.. it is time for extensive reform of our so-called health care system. Most of the damn doctors are not really healing or curing anyone, just treating this or that symptom. Doctors and big pharma are ramming as many drugs down our throats as they can, and people are still dying of the same things they have been for the past 60 years, heart disease and cancer. What did I read recently, our 5% of the world's population consumes 75% of the prescription drugs produced? Outrageous.
My wife and I just had our third child, and looking at the detailed bill from the hospital one can definitely see where the train derailed as far as health care. We were billed $64 each and every hour just for the nurse to come in and "check" on my wife, which really was just, "hey, do you need anything". Stupid as hell. Of course, my insurance covered it. That's why GM can't afford health coverage for its employees and why this could eventually (if something else didn't do it first) collapse our entire economy.
My wife said, "What would we do if we didn't have insurance and had no money?" I said, "Let the government pay. If we had a little money, then we would be in trouble." I have heard, though, that when push comes to shove, if one is paying cash and can only pay cash, hospitals will take pennies on the (billed) dollar.
IMHO she is underpaid. On another track, least anyone believe that we do not currently run like socialized medicine......your govt sets the pace..........Are you aware of what Medicare dosnt pay, they have new lists weekly I think, "We wont pay for this anymore....echo, echo.......so saying someone is "covered" because they have medicare is a true laugh. "They". They who? Hospitals dont want universal healthcare. And neither do Dr. and nurses and ANYONE in medicine. We all know why Canadian nurses work in the states!! If the Canadian dollar rises a bit more they will go home.....the lowly greenback no longer looking like gold to them. That and they dont ever worry about healthcare...its truly "free" back home. I can tell you Michael Moores Sicko was bang on......and dont let anyone tell you different. Give it a watch and then be afraid.....truly afraid. signed-Been in healthcare 29 years.
frankthetank wrote:
My personal opinion on health insurance is why the hell does an employer need to distribute it? I don't see them offering me auto insurance...?
You want to see some 'welfare' health insurance? Go look at the local government officials health plan. Talk about perks to a job.
I've thought a lot along the lines of SPG lately. As we continue down this slippery slope towards god knows where, what will happen to health care as it stands today? With a reduced workforce, that means less jobs (equals less insured people). Also as people's income is continued to be stretched, they'll start opting out of their coverage. All this means LESS MONEY FOR BIG HOSPITALS? No wonder why they want universal health care, they want big government to pick up the tab when the masses our unemployed.
Ive got a friend who is 21 and recently passed her RN licensing (or whatever its called...some type of "boards"). She currently makes $28/hr giving people medication they probably don't need.
People do get sick, ill, and die. Mom was diagnosed breast cancer last year. The country's social security took her in and did it all - 2 surgeries, chemotherapy, radiotherapy, the lot. Even psychological support. She's fine. No bills. I didn't have to sell my soul to have my mother treated.
Than, last month, the girlfriend has an appendicitis. The country's social security took her in and did it all - surgery, 5 days in the Hospital, medicines. She's fine. I didn't have to sell my soul to have my girlfriend treated.
A couple of years ago, my girlfriend's grandma had a heart attack. You probably guess what happened. No one sold any souls, old lady still tells naughty jokes at dinner on weekends. Same with my grandma's knee. Same with my other grandma's skin cancer.
The reason there were no bills, the treatments were always the better and that all these people are around is that our universal social security isn't based around a insurance company having a profit; it's something the people pay for, with their taxes. It's not pity that drives such system, you know? It's hard work - we're all taxed so that everyone has it when they need it.
OK, so our military stinks, we're still using Vietnam-vintage M60 Pattons. Who cares? It's not like we're invading anyone, anyway.
64 is squat for the education and sacrifice for being a nurse.
Very little of that $64 probably ended up in the nurse's pocket.
_________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
How does someone pay for an operation if they don't have health insurance cause they have no job? Please explain where this money comes from... We'd export hospital jobs too if we could (wait... i did just read how fat Americans are flying to India to have knee surgeries and insurance companies are starting to cover it....). Higher energy prices cause people to spend more on that and less on everything else. Most people would probably choose a tank of gasoline over paying their premium.
"Nightline" last week had a part on about Haitian children who are pretty much slaves. They asked this little girl what "goals" she had in life, what she would like to do/become...
She said she wanted to drive a car...
Registered Nurse is probably the best job going right now. I should get my ass back in class and get through the program. I've worked in a nursing home for a few years so i kind of know how it works. My sister works in insurance billing (for over 15 years) at the local hospital (part of Mayo) and i've got an idea how that works too. I know a lot of stuff gets written off and a lot of people fail to pay their bills.
Self medication, here we come. _________________ Clothing should be optional.
...
The US Govt. dropped the whole idea of universal healthcare and social security.
We have social security, that's not going away.
As for universal health care, the idea was proposed by Bill Clinton back when he was in office. I will never support universal health care (because I really don't want to pay more taxes) and it seems the majority of Americans also agree. When Hillary was running for the presidency recently she attempted to resurrect the idea again as part of her campaign but it did not work.
CarlosFerreira wrote:
...
It's immoral, should be illegal. I will never buy an Opel.
I do not believe companies should be obligated to provide health insurance to their employees and in the USA they certainly have no legal requirement to do so.
However most companies do because of competition. For example if you're running a company and your competitor offers health insurance then you would be obligated to do the same unless you want all your employees to quit their jobs and move over across the street. That's how the free-market works.
however...
if the economy turns sour and there are substantially more people looking for work then companies offering jobs then the pendulum swings the other way.
I believe that is what's happening right now.
There is nothing that can be done.
PO == the end of 2 weeks paid vacation, a retirement plan, and health insurance
All this means LESS MONEY FOR BIG HOSPITALS? No wonder why they want universal health care, they want big government to pick up the tab when the masses our unemployed.
Maybe if the pharmacutical companies would stop charging $100 for a bottle of pills that cost them 23 cents to make, the hospitals stopped charging $8 to $10 to hand a patient a pill, doctors didn't jump on the medwagon and give people meds they didn't need... well, maybe all those health benefits wouldn't be necessary. It is getting so that the patients are just getting in the way when their employer wants to hand over money to the HMOs. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
All this means LESS MONEY FOR BIG HOSPITALS? No wonder why they want universal health care, they want big government to pick up the tab when the masses our unemployed.
Maybe if the pharmacutical companies would stop charging $100 for a bottle of pills that cost them 23 cents to make, the hospitals stopped charging $8 to $10 to hand a patient a pill, doctors didn't jump on the medwagon and give people meds they didn't need... well, maybe all those health benefits wouldn't be necessary. It is getting so that the patients are just getting in the way when their employer wants to hand over money to the HMOs.
This is what happens when for profit health care takes root.
Yes, RN ranges vary, however, OB nurses do quite well! They are far and few between,due to liability, and can demand a nice sum. You can factor in, retention bonuses, relocation expenses, good chance they are a traveling nurse, could be in Vail for ski season and Myrtle Beach for the summer etc. However my point is that nurses earn every penny. Much as auto-workers who have been crapped on this week. It is a sorry state of affairs but dont be dissing on nurses....they will be there for you when its your time of need.
If
Ludi wrote:
emeraldg40 wrote:
64 is squat for the education and sacrifice for being a nurse.
Very little of that $64 probably ended up in the nurse's pocket.
It's going to require a new paradigm in American health care though. It's going to require an earnest push to abandon high-tech medicine and rediscover affordable medicine. It's also going to require, I think, that we follow Shakespear's advice vis-a-via malpractice lawyers. The technophilic health care model that the US, and to a lesser extent Europe have been pursuing, really needs to come to an end, and this may be the kind of thing that finally motivates us to make it happen.
I agree 100% with SPGirl. As we speak, my 90-something father is in hospital and the dollars that are flowing to keep him alive stagger the mind. Money is no object in poking and prodding and dosing and drugging his tired old body. I keep asking the old man if he wants to THINK about declining this crazy money-is-no-object, what-new-device-can-we-try-next medical treatment and he's still sound in mind (if not in body) and says, "NO, dammit, I don't want to die."
Well, at some point, his number will be up. And he'll leave behind a staggering debt of medical care that probably tops $300,000 in the last 18 months.
November 11, 2003 burst subarachenoid aneurysm.
brain surgery next day: 243,278.65
United Health Care paid 170,220.06
I paid 100.00 deductible
three months rehab learning to walk and talk again, lots of money.
I have no illusions that I was dead. Because they saw I had good insurance, they did surgery.
The guy down the street had an anuerysm burst a month later. Because he had no insurance, he never went to the doctor when he had symptoms (granted I didn't either)
because he had no insurance, they "waited" to opperate (sp)
anyway, had this happened either when I was living on the street or a hundred years ago, I wouldn't be typing this. Happened to be at the right place at the right time with the right piece of paper.
I can only speak for the DFW area. If you dont have a job, you
go to the county hospital,access the Emergency room and if you
need surgery you will get it. I dont have an opinion on this, but
that would be your best course of action. You may very well have
to go this route if you are employed by a small company that has
no benefits. There is an entire industry in hospitals of how they will
be reimbursed. If you have seen Sicko by M Moore you already
know, that just because a person has "coverage" does not mean it
will in fact be covered. Another industry of people denying claims.
So what to do? Read stories of what families in America with sick
and disabled children have had to endure during the "good" times
and you will have an idea of what is coming our way. It boils down
to this..............Find the best state and move there.
Good luck with the nurse course. I hung up my halo long ago and
jumped ship.......so...if the nurse thing dosnt work out for you
consider pharmacy tech certification before it becomes a degree...
The view from the 26th floor of the Palms in Vegas can be quite nice
once a year..........and nurses are not invited lol Peace
How does someone pay for an operation if they don't have health insurance cause they have no job? Please explain where this money comes from... We'd export hospital jobs too if we could (wait... i did just read how fat Americans are flying to India to have knee surgeries and insurance companies are starting to cover it....). Higher energy prices cause people to spend more on that and less on everything else. Most people would probably choose a tank of gasoline over paying their premium.
"Nightline" last week had a part on about Haitian children who are pretty much slaves. They asked this little girl what "goals" she had in life, what she would like to do/become...
She said she wanted to drive a car...
Registered Nurse is probably the best job going right now. I should get my ass back in class and get through the program. I've worked in a nursing home for a few years so i kind of know how it works. My sister works in insurance billing (for over 15 years) at the local hospital (part of Mayo) and i've got an idea how that works too. I know a lot of stuff gets written off and a lot of people fail to pay their bills.
So which way to go? The republicans want a free market....so big pharma says "Far out man. That bottle of pills will cost you 100.00". Or, the Canadian way........."Hey big pharma, if you want in our country.......we will tell you what we are willing to pay you, and no more than that.........take it or leave it." The choice is yours. But dont go thinking every country in the world is paying those prices. Only in America........... (or Zimbabwae)
Ferretlover wrote:
frankthetank wrote:
All this means LESS MONEY FOR BIG HOSPITALS? No wonder why they want universal health care, they want big government to pick up the tab when the masses our unemployed.
Maybe if the pharmacutical companies would stop charging $100 for a bottle of pills that cost them 23 cents to make, the hospitals stopped charging $8 to $10 to hand a patient a pill, doctors didn't jump on the medwagon and give people meds they didn't need... well, maybe all those health benefits wouldn't be necessary. It is getting so that the patients are just getting in the way when their employer wants to hand over money to the HMOs.
It's easy to blame insurance companies, and certainly they are vultures. The truth though is that the healthcare crisis really comes down to patients and families who have an unrealistic relationship with death and insist on outrageously expensive interventions to try to avoid it. A simple cerebral aneurysm repair is peanuts anymore. There's things ten times that expensive we can throw at patients. Problem is, that very few of us can afford a half million for medical expenses, even when you amortize it out over several decades. Because modern medicine has sold itself as being the source of immortality, lawyers hold us to it. If there's any way we could have spent more money on a patient, even for trivial benefits, you can bet there's a lawyer salivating to litigate it.
One of the biggest sources of malpractice claims for radiologists is missing a breast cancer on a mammogram. To combat this, the local radiology group in the town where I work in Montana got themselves a fancy computer assisted mammogram machine. Problem is that the new fancy mammograms now cost twice as much and nobody can afford to get a mammogram.
I think we really have to look at healthcare in terms of what can we really reasonably afford, and what standard of healthcare can we achieve with that. The great news is that it may actually not result in a reduction in our longevity or quality of life. Canadians spend a small fraction of what we do on healthcare and they live 2 years longer on average. The third leading cause of death in the US is complications from medical care.
One of the easiest things that could be done in the US to rapidly decrease the cost of healthcare would be to prohibit all advertising by pharmaceutical companies. Advertising accounts for well over a third of all medication costs in the US and it frequently leads to patients demanding a medication that they don't need or demanding a medication which is not the best choice for their condition. Likewise, prohibiting sample medications and requiring a simplified process for patient assistance programs would be a huge improvement to patient care. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
How does someone pay for an operation if they don't have health insurance cause they have no job? Please explain where this money comes from... We'd export hospital jobs too if we could (wait... i did just read how fat Americans are flying to India to have knee surgeries and insurance companies are starting to cover it....). Higher energy prices cause people to spend more on that and less on everything else. Most people would probably choose a tank of gasoline over paying their premium.
The whole idea of a fully privatized healthcare system was the brainchild of some people who though the Government shouldn't do anything but are the first to cry for it when things don't work the way they want them to.
Something as inelastic as healthcare is not something that should be left to the open market. How is there a role for competition?
"Well Mr. Frank the Tank, we could charge you $35 to use this brand new scalepel OR we could charage you $25 and use the one I used on the patient before you, if you want me to wipe off the blood and puss that'll be another $2, which one would you like?"
There ARE indeed things where an EFFICENT (not big) Government CAN outperform a private enterprise handsomly.
As far as the Provincial Healthcare goes. This stupid "Small Government Thinking" has essentially gutted said Government to a point where it really is only useful as a scapegoat and (in some aspects) we've ended up with the worst of both systems.
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