Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Illinois
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
NugBlazer wrote:
Now, let's get this thread back on track.
Agreed, this thread is starting to stray.
MonteQuest wrote:
Without a major upheaval in society with regards to how we do things, just have far can we pare down and keep things a afloat?
Well to start off, I would say any increase because of "summer driving season" can be parred down. The numbers jump around a lot, but it usually is not more than a 5% jump in consumption, 10% for a few years. I could not find very good numbers for car pooling, so I'll just add that to the list as a suggestion. Also changing driving patterns, driving slower, chain trips together, etc.
More mass transit use. I don't think this will cause a major upheaval, but as car sales are parred back, that 1 in 6 jobs will have to par back as well and will increase unemployment.
Anyone else have any ideas? _________________ The oil barrel is half-full.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
kublikhan wrote:
More mass transit use. I don't think this will cause a major upheaval, but as car sales are parred back, that 1 in 6 jobs will have to par back as well and will increase unemployment.
Anyone else have any ideas?
OK, assuming there's no upheaval resulting from those changes, then perhaps the former car sales and support people could be retrained to drive busses...
Now...where's the money and energy going to come for constructing all these new busses?
Really, I would love to see it, and there are even more jobs for you, but where's the dough?
According to the news reports lately, about 5 trillion dollars are in danger of whistling down a rat hole...
That will put a hurt on mass transit infrastructure improvements as you and I help bail out that mess.
Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Illinois
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
zeke wrote:
Now...where's the money and energy going to come for constructing all these new busses?
I was hoping to stay on topic :/ I get that you have a hard-on for the doomer porn that is spewed forth here, but seriously, you should think through some of the things you post :/
Quote:
One Greyhound bus takes an average of 34 cars off the road, and achieves 184 passenger miles per gallon of fuel.
Greyhound _________________ The oil barrel is half-full.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
kublikhan wrote:
zeke wrote:
Now...where's the money and energy going to come for constructing all these new busses?
I was hoping to stay on topic :/ I get that you have a hard-on for the doomer porn that is spewed forth here, but seriously, you should think through some of the things you post :/
OK, dad..why don't you blaze that trail for the rest of us then?
How impert of my to raise the silly idea that it takes money and energy to construct these things, and to pay people to operate them.
Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Illinois
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
zeke wrote:
OK, dad..why don't you blaze that trail for the rest of us then?
I thought I just did. The money and energy to build a bus is the least of our worries. How about worry more about the massive unemployment of losing 1 in 6 jobs that is tied to the automotive sector? _________________ The oil barrel is half-full.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
kublikhan wrote:
zeke wrote:
OK, dad..why don't you blaze that trail for the rest of us then?
I thought I just did. The money and energy to build a bus is the least of our worries. How about worry more about the massive unemployment of losing 1 in 6 jobs that is tied to the automotive sector?
This is really getting circular. It blew past silly several exchanges ago.
Good luck.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
kublikhan wrote:
MonteQuest wrote:
Without a major upheaval in society with regards to how we do things, just have far can we pare down and keep things a afloat?
Anyone else have any ideas?
I'm wondering if a return to more multi-generational living and a lower divorce rate will be a result of PO and I KNOW it would significantly contribute to power down. I can't remember where I read it, but divorce results in something like a 70% increase in consumption from having seperate residences, redundancy in objects owned, and carting kids between parents. I suspect that the nuclear family has a similar raise in energy use over a multi-generational family.
I know I'm excited to move my family back in with my mom & turn off all our utilities next week. _________________ ~Laura
"If you weren't smart enough to plan ahead then Doom on you!" ~Dodo bird
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
NugBlazer wrote:
Wow. I never thought I'd see someone exhaust your enormous amount of patience.
I haven't exhausted it, I'm just not going to waste it on troll-like behavior. A debate I love, but constant rancor that serves no purpose?
Argue just to argue? What's up with that? _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
Ok, I found a link--I overestimated the increase. It's in the 40-60% range.
They said it's more an argument for marriage, rather than an argument against divorce. This made me think about gay marriage. I wonder if it were legal in more places if it would increase the rate of co-habitation. . . _________________ ~Laura
"If you weren't smart enough to plan ahead then Doom on you!" ~Dodo bird
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
TonyPrep wrote:
So, why do you vehemently argue that a little bit of efficiency can keep our economies growing for some indeterminate period, in the face of energy declines?
I asked myself the same question. This is arguing just to argue.
Something a troll would do. I am not calling YP a troll, just that he posts like one with this nonsense. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
kublikhan wrote:
Well to start off, I would say any increase because of "summer driving season" can be parred down. The numbers jump around a lot, but it usually is not more than a 5% jump in consumption, 10% for a few years.
Many business and local economies count on the busy summer driving season for the bulk of their yearly income.
Quote:
changing driving patterns, driving slower, chain trips together, etc. More mass transit use. Also I don't think this will cause a major upheaval, but as car sales are parred back, that 1 in 6 jobs will have to par back as well and will increase unemployment.
Not just car sales, "changing driving patterns, driving slower, chain trips together, etc. More mass transit use" that 1 in 6 jobs will have to par back as well and will increase unemployment." _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
zeke wrote:
OK, assuming there's no upheaval resulting from those changes, then perhaps the former car sales and support people could be retrained to drive busses...
Changing the end use is not parring down. We pared down car sales to meet supply, right?
We are powering down to core conusmption to be able to meet supply with demand.
Where does the new energy come from to re-employ the car sales people? _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Illinois
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Powering Down to Core Consumption
MonteQuest wrote:
Many business and local economies count on the busy summer driving season for the bulk of their yearly income.
Not just car sales, "changing driving patterns, driving slower, chain trips together, etc. More mass transit use" that 1 in 6 jobs will have to par back as well and will increase unemployment."
True, but if we are to power down, then the automotive industry sticks out like a sore thumb as the first to go on the chopping block.... _________________ The oil barrel is half-full.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
