Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Closing in on 50% return on Washington Mutual.
Buy the fear sell the euphoria boys. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Specop_007 wrote:
Closing in on 50% return on Washington Mutual.
Buy the fear sell the euphoria boys.
Good move. I hope you've got some serious skin in the game, considering that return.
Note that I took money out of Wamu on Wednesday and the world did not end for them. I guess not everyone reads PO.com _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1198 Location: Central NC
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Nationalization, Fiasco, USDollar, Gold
snips:
"A grotesque grandiose nationalization initiative is gradually being forced upon the USEconomy, US financial system, US political system, and the hapless US citizenry. Its crucible for construction comes from the desperate situation unfolding for the banks, the mortgage holders, and homeowners."
NATIONALIZATION TREND
The following industries are on a clear path toward nationalization, in order of likelihood:
* Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac (mortgage finance)
* major banks
* airlines
* Detroit automobiles
* gasoline & diesel refineries
* some transportation systems including trucks, railroads
* home rental (limited to Fannie Mae properties)
* steel industry
"Eventually martial law will fit like a glove. The result will be an ugly outcome a few years from now, marred by shortages, and eventually managed shortages, as in rationing and price controls. This fits perfectly with the next chapter of the Fascist Business Model. That would be a broader tighter state control with the collusion of bankers. The selective enforcement of law will be much worse than simply limiting short selling against financial stocks."
"However, one must note that the wealthy have never taken such enormous losses in modern history, as they are today. Their woes are nowhere ended. Look for Union Bank of Switzerland to fail in Europe. Look for Royal Bank of Scotland to fail in England. Look for Commerzbank to fail in Germany. Look for the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce to fail in Canada. Look for numerous to fail in the US, the epicenter of the big bank bust."
"The focus of attention inside the distressed US system has been on US banks and investment banks for a long time. Fannie Mae has avoided attention, well hidden within the bowels of the USGovt. The bank deposit runs, like has begun with Indymac, coincide with the renewed attention for the Fannie Mae national disaster. They are related. If Fannie & Freddie go bust, then we could see dozens of banks suffer sudden death overnight. Nothing in the insanity of the US mortgage morass epitomizes better the recklessness, risk acceptance, and criminality than Fannie Mae. It is also the object of intense, pervasive, systematic, and very deep crime syndicate activity, some linked to USGovt agencies. In my opinion, few have given serious consideration that Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac (F&F) must be bailed out, or else a large cast of ugly dangerous people will be exposed for two decades and hundreds of billion$ of fraud, theft, corruption, and crime syndicate activity. More can be said on this point, perhaps even touching past presidents. F&F cannot be liquidated with full disclosure and resolution of colossal criminal fraud."
Link: http://www.kitco.com/ind/willie/jul172008.html _________________ "The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Look at what's happening with the GSEs now and recall this post:
Quote:
This time period in America will be the transition from "private home ownership" to renters. Just as the Great Depression destroyed the small American farmer, this time will be the destruction of individual home ownership. I predict that the majority of these properties will eventually be bought and owned by large institutions or families and rented. Private land ownership in the US will become more like the UK, where people can lease properties for up to 100 years.
If the Fed Reserve gets all these mortgages as collateral, and if the banks that it loaned the money to go bankrupt, then the Fed Reserve becomes the "holder in due course" of the mortgages. If the mortgages go bad, the Federal Reserve can foreclose on them, owning millions of home.
Could the Federal Reserve become the biggest landlord in the country? Its not unthinkable. On a much smaller scale where I live, a regional bank has set up an in house department to rent out the many homes it has foreclosed on, so the Federal Reserve could do something similar, or I'm sure Goldman Sachs or someone would gladly own a majority of the homes in the US and charge a reasonable rental rate, plus, use those homes it owns as collateral to buy the rest of the world.
Ultimately, however this plays out, it will be the shift away from private home ownership in America, just as the Great Depression killed the small farmer.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
That is where borrowers with a Northern Rock mortgage are today, except the government wanted its money back more than it wanted to play landlord. They increased rates to well above market in order to force customers to refinance with other banks. Then the credit tap closed. The BBC reports Newcastle courts handle one full working day each week of Northern Rock foreclosure proceedings. Who knows how they will offload those properties into a market without willing lenders. If they gambled on selling first and getting the highest prices in a declining market, they are going to have a problem with volume drying up. I think next time they are going to play landlord. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
seahorse2 said:
Quote:
If the Fed Reserve gets all these mortgages as collateral, and if the banks that it loaned the money to go bankrupt, then the Fed Reserve becomes the "holder in due course" of the mortgages. If the mortgages go bad, the Federal Reserve can foreclose on them, owning millions of home.
The rhetoric we are hearing about saving F&F has nothing to do with saving the US housing industry or the US home owner. Have you taken a look at the FED’s balance sheet lately? In an attempt to save their other appendages, the IBs, they have sawed off their own head. They are broke and now sitting on massive quantities of crap paper.
All the G8 central banks crawled into bed, most likely they where born from the same mother, with the FED. They now hold 60% of F&F’s six trillion dollar pile of garbage, and are facing a shotgun blast of $1000 trillion in unraveling derivatives. The intricate web of reserve banking and fiat currencies that they spun to catch the small insects buzzing around them, has now become their own trap.
They did not see or understand the implications of the coming end of the fossil fuel age. They are now buried in misallocated and worthless investments. The multi-generational dynasties of Rockefellers, Warburgs and Rothchilds are crumbling as the energy that built them bleeds its last meager quantities from the ground, and their fiat currencies that provided the chains to humanity break into pieces.
Like cornered animals, once they realize that their plight is dire, they will fight. They will fight the buzzing little pests that spin around them, never realizing its futility; unaware in their hubris, that their true enemy is now the Laws of Nature.
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1198 Location: Central NC
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
shortonoil wrote:
seahorse2 said:
Quote:
If the Fed Reserve gets all these mortgages as collateral, and if the banks that it loaned the money to go bankrupt, then the Fed Reserve becomes the "holder in due course" of the mortgages. If the mortgages go bad, the Federal Reserve can foreclose on them, owning millions of home.
The rhetoric we are hearing about saving F&F has nothing to do with saving the US housing industry or the US home owner. Have you taken a look at the FED’s balance sheet lately? In an attempt to save their other appendages, the IBs, they have sawed off their own head. They are broke and now sitting on massive quantities of crap paper.
All the G8 central banks crawled into bed, most likely they where born from the same mother, with the FED. They now hold 60% of F&F’s six trillion dollar pile of garbage, and are facing a shotgun blast of $1000 trillion in unraveling derivatives. The intricate web of reserve banking and fiat currencies that they spun to catch the small insects buzzing around them, has now become their own trap.
They did not see or understand the implications of the coming end of the fossil fuel age. They are now buried in misallocated and worthless investments. The multi-generational dynasties of Rockefellers, Warburgs and Rothchilds are crumbling as the energy that built them bleeds its last meager quantities from the ground, and their fiat currencies that provided the chains to humanity break into pieces.
Like cornered animals, once they realize that their plight is dire, they will fight. They will fight the buzzing little pests that spin around them, never realizing its futility; unaware in their hubris, that their true enemy is now the Laws of Nature.
Stands up and applauds! _________________ "The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
shortonoil,
Applause!
They deserve what they get-bad Karma and all that.
Short, since you're on a roll today, what's your outline of the immediate future? Dissolving currencies as a last gasp at fiat survival? Then....... We all get real broke, right? _________________ Local fix-it guy..
Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1009 Location: As close as I can get to the beginning of the pipe.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Huh? So remember those 19 market-makers who the SEC was going to prevent naked shorting of?
Quote:
"Here's The Deal
Anyone in the above list [those same 19 favored few] can continue to naked short with full approval from the SEC. No one else can.
The implications are that the market makers will be accumulating massive quantities of financial shorts as everyone else is squeezed out.
Looking one step ahead, think what happens to the bid after everyone else is squeezed out and the market makers hold all the financial shorts.
If the intent of the SEC was to force prices up, it is going to fail big time, in due time. If the SEC's intent was to temporarily increase the trading profits of the broker dealers, it will succeed."
All rules are off. These 19 will be protected at all costs, literally. These are the banks we'll fold the failures into. _________________ "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2257 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Shortonoil,
Quote:
The rhetoric we are hearing about saving F&F has nothing to do with saving the US housing industry or the US home owner. Have you taken a look at the FED’s balance sheet lately? In an attempt to save their other appendages, the IBs, they have sawed off their own head. They are broke and now sitting on massive quantities of crap paper.
I'm predicting the end of private homeownership, or the move away from it, to something more European. I'm not sure how our failing bank system contradicts that, in fact, I think it leads to that result. When and as homeowners and banks go under, the Federal Gov't steps in, as we now see them doing in various ways by propping up Freddie and Fannie, stopping those trying to short sale certain institutions, bailing out Bear Sterns, etc. It simply means, in the end, the gov't will end up holding the mortgages. The gov't in fact bought mortgage in the depression, and will apparently do so again. Only this time, as you point out, with the end of the fossile fuel age, individuals and banks will not recover to be able to put the original system back in place. In the future, I see all more most assets being controlled/rationed by the gov't, be it food, fuel, even housing. Scarcity of resources means a transition away from capitalism to some form of rationing, be it via "socialism", communism, martial law, whatever we want to call it.
Joined: Apr 13, 2005 Posts: 3259 Location: St.Louis, Mo
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
shortonoil wrote:
seahorse2 said:
Quote:
If the Fed Reserve gets all these mortgages as collateral, and if the banks that it loaned the money to go bankrupt, then the Fed Reserve becomes the "holder in due course" of the mortgages. If the mortgages go bad, the Federal Reserve can foreclose on them, owning millions of home.
The rhetoric we are hearing about saving F&F has nothing to do with saving the US housing industry or the US home owner. Have you taken a look at the FED’s balance sheet lately? In an attempt to save their other appendages, the IBs, they have sawed off their own head. They are broke and now sitting on massive quantities of crap paper.
All the G8 central banks crawled into bed, most likely they where born from the same mother, with the FED. They now hold 60% of F&F’s six trillion dollar pile of garbage, and are facing a shotgun blast of $1000 trillion in unraveling derivatives. The intricate web of reserve banking and fiat currencies that they spun to catch the small insects buzzing around them, has now become their own trap.
They did not see or understand the implications of the coming end of the fossil fuel age. They are now buried in misallocated and worthless investments. The multi-generational dynasties of Rockefellers, Warburgs and Rothchilds are crumbling as the energy that built them bleeds its last meager quantities from the ground, and their fiat currencies that provided the chains to humanity break into pieces.
Like cornered animals, once they realize that their plight is dire, they will fight. They will fight the buzzing little pests that spin around them, never realizing its futility; unaware in their hubris, that their true enemy is now the Laws of Nature.
Finally, somebody that understands the FED. Everyone else, read and learn.
Most of you people have no idea who owns the FED and who controls the money and who is pulling the strings. The international banking cartel runs the show.
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:41 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
shortonoil wrote:
seahorse2 said:
Quote:
If the Fed Reserve gets all these mortgages as collateral, and if the banks that it loaned the money to go bankrupt, then the Fed Reserve becomes the "holder in due course" of the mortgages. If the mortgages go bad, the Federal Reserve can foreclose on them, owning millions of home.
The rhetoric we are hearing about saving F&F has nothing to do with saving the US housing industry or the US home owner. Have you taken a look at the FED’s balance sheet lately? In an attempt to save their other appendages, the IBs, they have sawed off their own head. They are broke and now sitting on massive quantities of crap paper.
All the G8 central banks crawled into bed, most likely they where born from the same mother, with the FED. They now hold 60% of F&F’s six trillion dollar pile of garbage, and are facing a shotgun blast of $1000 trillion in unraveling derivatives. The intricate web of reserve banking and fiat currencies that they spun to catch the small insects buzzing around them, has now become their own trap.
They did not see or understand the implications of the coming end of the fossil fuel age. They are now buried in misallocated and worthless investments. The multi-generational dynasties of Rockefellers, Warburgs and Rothchilds are crumbling as the energy that built them bleeds its last meager quantities from the ground, and their fiat currencies that provided the chains to humanity break into pieces.
Like cornered animals, once they realize that their plight is dire, they will fight. They will fight the buzzing little pests that spin around them, never realizing its futility; unaware in their hubris, that their true enemy is now the Laws of Nature.
Don't fall for their public relations, they've been planning for post-peak world long before most of us ever knew of it. If you owned most of the world's wealth and resources, it would be very stupid to flaunt it or fail to hide behind as many corporations, governments, foundations, and organizations as possible. While we debate the metaphysical, existential, and ethical nature of rescuing some carrying capacity, the banking families have already shown through industrial history they choose the most destructive path possible. These liberal policies of the 20th century will disappear right along with easy energy, there is no precedent for the scale of authoritarianism their policies will be forced to take for preservation of centralized control. The only thing that can stop them is mother nature but by the time their lifeboats collapse from climate change, most of us will be long gone.
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