Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
Aaron wrote:
And we always have the same response...
As long as it's me... I'm fine with it.
Against this immovable object we are helpless to make such a terrible decision.
Your dog wants a benevolent monarchy.
I don't mind if I'm chosen to be culled actually, so doesn't always end up there, and given the right humans, a solution can and will be found. _________________ Introducing the human evolution.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
Ludi,
What is this culling you speak of? There is no culling going on with humans. I am not sure what you are talking about. Mom nature will do the culling. Not me. The economy as it deteriorates will help the culling in other ways as well. The way it works is that the supposed highly advanced species called human just never does things that highly advanced. If we just shut the mother farking doors after ww2 we would not have half the bullshit we face now. the greed Fark us all and stole what was left of the good life. So get ready for people blowing each other away en mas. Violently. Yes we all want to sing around the campfire but its going to be more like eating some human flesh around the campfire. hahahaha! I love how the wimps opened up the immigration in the 60's thinking we are all going to become this love in and have all this communal loving. You we all just need to love one another. love the one your with. blalalala. it actually is having the opposite effect. it is turning into a huge overpopulated hate fest as biomass is piled on top of one another killing for resources and scouring the land of all life! Hahahaha. Dippy hippy dumb dumbs. greedy flat earth technocrats Fark up a bit ya think? the hippy dippies had their head up their ass or were just plain stupid and greedy. or both. _________________ "Crush the Cornucopians, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women".
Last edited by holmes on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
ok I see now. Culling will just be done in other ways. Well the offspring of pre ww2 immigrants were getting educated and having less children. That was a good path we were on. The population was becoming replacement level. All we needed to maintain it was intelligent amounts of immigration and such. That future was crushed and destroyed. Now the future is called WAR and chaos. Nothing will be done to stave off PO or anything for that matter. Nothing is ever done amidst chaos and declining resources. The End. The culling has already begun. and we are just minions now. watch freedoms and the noose tighten further. People are already suffering rich and poor. Many forms of suffering.
Just enjoy these next 5-10 years while we have them. anything after who knows. Enjoy! _________________ "Crush the Cornucopians, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women".
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2500 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
ANewHuman wrote:
Sorry, again, no policy outside sterilization of the majority of the species or culling will reduce the population numbers within 50 years. Nothing. You can't make MINOR changes to this and expect changes within 10 years like you've said. It's just ridiculous. Maybe you mean population GROWTH? You can certainly change that within 50 years, but we weren't talking about GROWTH.
Correct. It's a start and it's more morally acceptable than sterilization or culling. I agree with die-offers to the extent that if the human race doesn't even try to implement these sort of policies and decide to choose the path of war and famine then that's just the way it is and Gaia has the last laugh.
Quote:
The harshest policy people would accept, imo, is the one child per woman/couple policy. That will have a 50 year payoff, which means in 50 years you'll have less population than today. Do you GET IT?
Actually I don't GET IT becuase that theory is subject to variables and not conclusive. Do you GET IT?
Quote:
There is no PLAN which will reduce population within 50 years, outside sterilization/abstinance or culling (whether voluntary or not). You say there is a policy, well tell us this magical population reduction policy that will reduce population levels from todays number within 50 years. Otherwise get off the dead horse.
I've already offered ideas and policies but, as I've said on this thread already, there's no guarantee they'll work. The principle is that we've tried. One example is Islam. The Middle East is the fastest growing region in the world and my Muslim friends tell me that in the Qu'ran the Prophet Mohammed encouraged people to have large families so Islam could spread. Can you imagine the reaction in that region if Westerners tell them to go against their teachings?
Quote:
I don't mind if I'm chosen to be culled actually
Jeez, go see a shrink dude. Or smell some flowers and sit on top of a mountain and take in the view. Anything that makes a person feel alive. _________________ "The age of excess is over. The age of entropy has begun"
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
CherBear1983 wrote:
ANewHuman wrote:
]
I've accepted death, just waiting for the day. And yes, I will most likely.... "take" your bread if I'm hungry, and if you're lucky that's all I will do. Good day.
That's VERY intimidating.
If I picture you in my mind, you look kind of like the comic book guy from the Simpsons.
And just because I don't advocate mass murder doesn't mean I'd let a sorry M.F. like you take my bread.
Good day to you.
Hey but that is exactly the point. He will take your bread and you will die from hunger, or you'll die protecting it, or you will kill him when he tries, or he will die from hunger. This way or another, there is a 50% population cut between two of you.
Not bad, from bystander's position. Not bad at all.
Joined: Jul 15, 2008 Posts: 35 Location: Daegu, South Korea
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
Pretorian wrote:
Hey but that is exactly the point. He will take your bread and you will die from hunger, or you'll die protecting it, or you will kill him when he tries, or he will die from hunger. This way or another, there is a 50% population cut between two of you.
Not bad, from bystander's position. Not bad at all.
Yes. I never once argued that there wouldn't be a population cut. My argument was that I don't believe in mass murder in order to save the species.
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1464 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
CherBear1983 wrote:
Pretorian wrote:
Hey but that is exactly the point. He will take your bread and you will die from hunger, or you'll die protecting it, or you will kill him when he tries, or he will die from hunger. This way or another, there is a 50% population cut between two of you.
Not bad, from bystander's position. Not bad at all.
Yes. I never once argued that there wouldn't be a population cut. My argument was that I don't believe in mass murder in order to save the species.
Which species? Who's mass muder? Mass murder of Homo to save endangered species? Mass murder of endangered species to save Homo, or more likely a few (billion) of individual homos?
If you are talking about genus Homo, global nuclear war aside, extinction is not on horizon yet. It takes 300-400 individuals to maintain genetically healthy populace indefinitly. Culling numbers of Homo, even from 7 billion to 300, won't be threatening to the specie, unless they are scattered around the planet.
So which is it? How many species would you annihilate to save/keep alive 1 million tonnes of humans? 10 million? 100 million tonnes?
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
stu wrote:
Like any situation there are number of variables and possibilities when it comes to implementing policy. For example if you were to implement a mass education policy on contraception factors such as regional stability, culture and religion would have to be considered. I don't believe it would take 50 years to implement these procedures but the actual effect of reducing population growth could start within ten years, dependant on many factors of course. There is a chance that it could be too late by then but at least we tried.
Thanks for the link btw.
Well, stu, you still don't get it, I am afraid.
It takes 50 to 75 years once the policies are implemented before any effect on the population.
Why? Demographics; age structure.
If everyone on earth, starting today , only had two children, it would be 50 to 75 years before ZPG would be reached.
In other words, the population would continue to grow for 50 to 75 years, before reaching ZERO growth. Then you can start the reduction process.
Take Paksitan for example. 70% of the 150 million population is 15 years of age and under.
If currently, something less than 45 million are capable of having children, what happens to 2/couple when that percentage rises to 105 million when the 15 years old reached reproduction age?
You have an increase in the population even with a replacement policy in effect. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4926 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
So out of the 300 million Americans, how many need to be shed? Say we close up the borders and not let any more foreigners in, except Canadians...in exchange for their resources...
I think this country could survive with a decent hardcore dictator who would set the smack down...(sterilization/energy rationing/meat rationing/death penalties for small crimes) _________________ Clothing should be optional.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4926 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
On the flip side, this may be the best time in history to learn Russian and have your name changed to Vladmir... _________________ Clothing should be optional.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
CherBear1983 wrote:
Yes. It is a huge problem. But the idea that certain people can be selected to live, while others are killed in order to "save the species," is one of the most unethical things I can conceive of, despite your argument to the contrary.
Do you agree with these statements?
(1) An acceptable system of ethics is contingent on its ability to preserve the ecosystems which sustain it.
(2) Biological necessity has a veto over the behavior which any set of moral beliefs can allow or require.
(3) Biological success is a necessary (though not a sufficient) condition for any acceptable ethical theory.
In summary, no ethics can be grounded in biological impossibility; no ethics can be incoherent in that it requires ethical behavior that ends all further ethical behavior. Clearly any ethics which tries to do so is mistaken; it is wrong.
So, carrying capacity must trump ethics, right?
If you agree, then using ethics here is an unintelligent response as it is incoherent.
We don't have to "kill" anyone to increase the death rate, we could just stop trying to save everyone.
Ban transplants.
Extraneous life support and surgeries, like heart and cancer surgery.
Stop feeding unsustainable populations with Plumpynut.
Quote:
If human beings are so worthless, then why even bother perpetuating the species?
That's emotion, not logic speaking.
Quote:
If you can so casually talk about offing people, why would you even care about the survival of humanity?
Casually? You think I am just cold and detacted about this? You are quite wrong. I have just come to accept the reality. I don't look at it as offing people, I see it as saving people.
Quote:
I value the lives of individual human beings, and that's why I don't agree with some strategic murdering plan, and that's why I also want to see our species continue, because I think human life is special. I'm not religious, but yes, I am biased and I don't think that we should be culled like rabbits. I guess because I am a human.
But we are going to be culled like rabbbits who have overshot their environment by Nature. That's the point.
Do you want a say in how that is done or not?
If not, then expect far worse than if you had said yes.
Quote:
If the situation ever comes to that, I hope they off me first because I wouldn't want to live in a world where strategic murder is acceptable or necessary.
You already live in a world where strategic murder is acceptable and necessary.
What do you call the Iraq wars? Or any war?
What do you call the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Considering the level of defense the Japanese had in place and the scope of defense the Japanese claim they were willing to put up to defend the islands, it saved lives.
More people died during the invasion and battle for Okinawa than died in the blasts. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
I have a real problem with the guy who would set himself up as the one who chooses who lives and who dies. Those guys may very well find themselves in a bunker with a pistol in their mouth.
Mother Nature has a way of thinning things out. Our species has been pushed to the brink at least once in the past. It will happen again. H5N1 has been bubbling in the hinter lands for some time now. It along with slew of other nasties may step out on the world stage and give the thinning that some of you lust for.
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