Nature is survival of the fittest, exploitation of the weak, dog eat dog, disease, poison and parasites. Everywhere in nature you have one organism, plant, animal or microbe, trying to sh*t on another organism. Organisms of the same species fight to become top dog only to pass their genes onto the next generation. Predators eat prey, who need predators to control their numbers to prevent overpopulation which would use up all of the prey's food supply.
Its man's mission on earth to conquer and control nature. Nature, alone, has no purpose. Now that man has arrived on earth, it is nature's purpose to serve mankind. Of course, it might be desirable to have some reasonable amount of conservation so nature can provide for man's needs long term. The most morally upright of mankind reduce the suffering of his fellow man by inventing and providing labor saving devices and other technology. To run the labor saving devices and provide synthetic materials of at least equal or better worth than natural materials, man has learned to use fossil fuels, such as oil, natural gas and coal. The companies and those working in those industries that provide these products are some of the most righteous people on earth as are the farmers who provide food for mankind. If it wasn't for synthetic chemistry, it would be impossible to provide enough food for the human race today.
The most noble life a human can lead is as a fair free trade capitalist owning or working for a company, especially a publically owned corporation which provides large amounts of wealth for its share holders and society. The highest level of society is those refered to as conservatives or neo-conservatives, in many ways modeled after Plato's Republic where the smartest and most educated run society for the benefit of all.
A number of deviant individuals oppose man's true nature as discussed here by opposing capitalism and setting up scams where these individuals pretend to be environmentalists with little or no knowledge of science. Many may have tried to get a traditional scientific education only to drop out and become involved with a leftist scam outfit. These people, especially, the fake environmentalists are in league with the devil. These deviants insist man is evil and claim he only exploits and damages the earth.
The deviants speak with a religious fervor and provide tainted evidence and pseudoscience and claim mankind is creating a catastrophy in order to encourage people to join their suicide pact. These left leaning deviants have failed in a fair capitalist system because of their sociopathic incompetence and want to destroy it and all those who are part of it.
The greatest evil they have concocted is the man made global warming scam where they try to blame all bad things that happen today on an alleged global warming caused by mankind's use of fossil fuels.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
pstarr, you have been deemed genetically inferior and are required to report to the nearest office of the Department of Racial Purity for sterilization by order of the Commisioner of Eugenics.
Joined: May 07, 2007 Posts: 434 Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Vogelzang wrote:
pstarr, you have been deemed genetically inferior and are required to report to the nearest office of the Department of Racial Purity for sterilization by order of the Commisioner of Eugenics.
The Inner Party requests that you fly to Oceania immediately, whereupon you must report to the Ministry of Love for immediate vaporization. You have been deemed doubleplus ungood to the success of Big Brother and his idealizations, and as such you must be disposed of in a timely and efficient fashion, for the greater good.
Salute, comrade! and remember.....
Apologies to all members who are attempting to engage in meaningfull discussion in this thread. The troll deserved an equally stupid retort _________________ "That the cream cannot help but always rise up to the top, well I say, <censored by peakoil.com> floats"
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Concerned: here's another view one could take as pessimistic but it's really just another noncomforting reality,
In various threads I often see the phrase “all the easy oil has been found…the rest will be much more difficult to find”. Actually the truth is just the opposite. Many laymen would interpret that phrase to mean there’s a lot more oil out there but we just haven’t found it yet. I’ve been a petroleum geologist for over 30 years and oil exploration has never been as easy and relatively successful as it is now. It’s difficult to offer an easy understood example but I’ll make this comparison. Diagnosing a lung tumor 100 years would have obviously been difficult. Now with chemical and DNA markers as well as x-rays and CAT scans it pretty routine. In the last 30 years we’ve had technological advances on the same order of magnitude. We can now successfully explore for smaller targets with much higher probability of success in environments (such as 7000’ of water) that no one had dreamed of when my career began (600' water depth then). Despite their size many of the old mega fields were far from easy to find. Those were the days of real “seat of your pants” wildcatting.
A good current oil patch example would be the big North Sea play that developed in the 80’s. Even though they’ve produced over 25 billion bo since then few people know that it took 93 wells before the first big field discovery. I can only offer a guess but today it might have taken only a handful of wells. Additionally, currently completions designs would have depleted those fields much faster. The crisis is that the remaining conventional oil isn’t difficult to find but that there are just not many big fields of significant size left to find. The exceptions would be those areas of the world that have not been accessible for either political or logistical reasons. Applying new technology in these areas will have a significant impact but still limited to a small area compared to historic global exploration and production. The tar sands and other resource plays have been discussed by others so I’ll gloss over them . The tar sands have been known for hundreds of years. The issues there are ecological and economic.
If the general public interprets that phrase to mean we’ll just have to look harder and we’ll solve PO they will be in for a shock when it doesn’t happen. Even worse, they’ll want to put off the changes in our economy/lifestyles we need to begin today.
Joined: Jul 02, 2008 Posts: 436 Location: Espinho, Porto, Portugal
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
So, that means it's not going to be harder to find, it will be more and more expensive to extract, right?
On a side note, for such a potentially crappy thread, this is turning very informative. _________________ Give anyone a lever long enough and they can change the world. It's unreliable levers that are the problem.
Joined: Jul 15, 2008 Posts: 34 Location: Daegu, South Korea
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Concerned1 wrote:
You know, I've been coming here for a while now, trying to stay up on things. And I've been reading everyone's comments to see what they have to say. I think a lot of people who comment here are genuinely concerned about the future of energy. They're comments are genuine and their fears understandable. But I'm disturbed by the number of comments I've been reading by people who knock every bit of good news that comes along. Honestly, it almost sounds as if some of those here actually want things to get worse, are looking for bad news, and will denounce every bit of good news that gets posted as ridiculous. What do you want? If the point is to find solutions, good and well. Isn't that what it's all about? But if the point is to suggest that there's nothing we can do, everything is going to hell in a handbasket and we might as well just blow our heads off, I mean, what's the point of that? If anyone here actually wants things to get worse, whoa, scary!
I'm in the same boat as Concerned1.
Up until about a month ago, I thought that peak oil meant that we would be all switching from gas-powered vehicles to driving vehicles that use other forms of energy (solar, hydrogen, etc.) SERIOUSLY. That's how misinformed I was. I didn't make all of the other connections, until I did some googling and some reading. And it's scary how many people out there know so little about peak oil and its implications. The first website I found was Matt Savinar's lifeaftertheoilcrash.net, so you can imagine how freaked out I was.
So I ended up joining this forum to see what other concerned people out there were saying about peak oil, what they were doing to prepare, etc. There are a lot of really intelligent people here who seem to have a good understanding of a lot of the ideas about peak oil that I am just beginning to grasp. There are also a lot of meatheads who seem to enjoy the fact that so much human suffering is about to happen.
So, yeah, I still have hope for the future. Every day that goes by that the government and the media continue to ignore peak oil, my little flicker of hope gets smaller and smaller, but it's still there. I'm 25 years old and I can't just hole up in my basement and wait until somebody kills me and "takes my bread." I don't think there's going to be a techno-savior and obviously there will have to be major changes if we want to avoid total chaos and societal collapse, but I still hope that people will change and I'm trying to make changes in my own life. We will have to give up many luxuries and conveniences, but it seems like society is not ready or willing to do that.
I've been insulted for my views, but it's not going to make me give up hope. I guess you can say I am not a doomer!! Not yet, anyway.
On a side note, not that anyone cares, but I just want to say that it's really irritating that half the threads I go into, somebody always has to throw cannibalism into the conversation. And it's not that it bothers me for people to mention the c-word, but some people on this forum offer these bizarre images of the future, almost gleefully, like they can't wait to take out a fork and dig into their neighbour. So, just for the record, I'll be putting people on my ignore list when they talk about eating people with relish (no pun intended).
And I'm not delusional, I know that it happens in survival situations but it is very disturbing to me. Does it bother anyone else that it's mentioned so often here, or am I just a squeamish little girl? Maybe some day I will make a tender and delicious meal for some family, but I'd rather not spend the rest of my days thinking about it. Also, I am a vegetarian so yeah, I'd have to be pretty starving before I eat people. Maybe that will happen some day but why spend so much time fantasizing about it? Somebody said something in another thread about 2013 being a world of cannibalism or something like that, but I'm not really convinced that that will be the case, not that soon anyway. Well, here's hoping. If I'm wrong you can bite me. Heh.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12473 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
It bothers several of us that people talk about cannibalism so much. You are not alone. It certainly bothers me! _________________ No original ideas are contained in this post.
Joined: Jul 02, 2008 Posts: 436 Location: Espinho, Porto, Portugal
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Amen to CherBear1983. That's my view, I could sign that. Well, amost, I'm 1981 vintage and I'm not vegetarian. All the violent doomer-porn makes more moderated people at bay. Those more moderated people are the majority, I think. They are the one upon whom scarcity will fall, they are the one that will have to bear the burden.
Hope. This is not MadMax 2 yet. Work so it doesn't become so. _________________ Give anyone a lever long enough and they can change the world. It's unreliable levers that are the problem.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
CherBear1983 wrote:
Up until about a month ago, I thought that peak oil meant that we would be all switching from gas-powered vehicles to driving vehicles that use other forms of energy (solar, hydrogen, etc.) SERIOUSLY. That's how misinformed I was. I didn't make all of the other connections, until I did some googling and some reading. And it's scary how many people out there know so little about peak oil and its implications. The first website I found was Matt Savinar's lifeaftertheoilcrash.net, so you can imagine how freaked out I was.
So I ended up joining this forum to see what other concerned people out there were saying about peak oil, what they were doing to prepare, etc. There are a lot of really intelligent people here who seem to have a good understanding of a lot of the ideas about peak oil that I am just beginning to grasp. There are also a lot of meatheads who seem to enjoy the fact that so much human suffering is about to happen.
I have also joined this forum only recently but have read about PO for a couple of years in print and other sites. I think the response you first had (and most peoples response) of being able to switch to another fuel epitomises the problem - we collectively want life to continue as it is with some other magic replacing fossil fuels. But since the PO problem is enormous and beyond the scope of any one person it is easy to fall into the doom trap once you realize this magic is not happening.
Unfortunately I cannot see the PO problem solved without abandoning the automobile and all the infrastructure that is associated with it - Western society and in particular North America has invested far too much to do this.
Here's my bit of doomsday thinking...
As the world has witnessed with Global Warming the US is not interested in doing anything and even continues to debate that there is a problem. If an incrementalist approach could be taken collectively with the West shouldering the majority of the burden then the severity of the problem could be lessened and time bought to reduce the population. But I would not hold your breath the US has already entered into occupying foreign nations to ensure access to oil instead of reorganizing its economy so we can predict what the future responses will be.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Carlos,
A tricky answer: it's not difficult to find what's left out there. Drilling/producing in some of the extreme environments is difficult. But the costs have shot way up but not because of drilling difficulties: it's the demand for equipment and materials. It may be hard to believe but right now it's not much more economical to drill then it was when oil was $60/bbl. The push into the resource plays (tite sands, shale gas) is really pushing prices up across the board. To a degree these plays are like shooting fish in a barrel....except the bullits have gotten really expensive.
Really: finding oil and gas now is easier than its even been. But when it comes to finding mega fields like Ghawar its a little like looking for an elephant in your mail box. If it isn't there you're never going to find it no matter how hard you look. I've mentioned it elsewhere: many companies are spending more to buy production then to drill for it. The publicly owned companies must increase their assets and many are at the own PO moment: they can't drill enough to replace their depletion.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: There's plenty of oil left
Carlos,
Just after I posted I though of a great example of what I’m trying to explain. I’ve spent much of my career drilling offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. When I began 33 years ago we used 2d seismic. This really just means there was a low density of data, As such, you had to guess a lot to make an interpretation of where to drill. But now, 3d seismic data (much greater density…like 100X) and almost all of the guess work in gone. But it’s a double edged sword. This technology greatly improved the success rate and allowed us to drill for smaller targets. But it also killed a lot of drilling opportunities by condemning an idea without having to drill a hole to find out. It’s that improved success rate that allows us to drill for smaller targets. That’s one big reason why seeing a big upswing in the number of wells drilled over time doesn’t mean those wells are finding as much oil/gas as they did 30 years ago.
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