Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Australia
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
cube wrote:
hironegro wrote:
What will be the consequences for banning naked short selling?
capital controls == capital flight
If you're an investor and government stepped in and told you what you can and cannot do with your money what do you do?
simple --> get the hell out
Cube, not sure if you have misunderstood the issue.
Naked shorting is not short selling per se.
There is no major problem with short selling.
Normally short selling involves 1) someone borrowing shares
2) selling these with the intent of buying them back later at a lower price 3) buying back & returning the the borrowed shares.
Nakes shorting is selling shares that don't exits.
Therefore you can sell unlimited amount of shares.
For example a junior company that has issued 100,000,000 shares and has a normal turnarounf of about 1,000,000 shares.
Someone wanting to short this naked can sell 2,000,000 shares a day in order to drive down the price. Theoretically there is no cap to how many shares they sell as they don't exist. If the share price finds support and buyers for the 2Million shares a day, they just sell more. Eventually the share price goes to rock bottom.
The illegal share seller can cover at steep discount or the company may even go under, in which case the shorter doesn't cover at all.
Stopping an illegal practice is hardly capital control.
The risk of these criminals taking their business elsewhere - NIL. Naked shorters haven't contributed anything and therefore nothing lost. Infact it stops money from leaving the country in those cases where the illegal shorts are by international gangsters. _________________ It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" - Nancy Pelosi
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Snowrunner said:
Quote:
And you think that's likely? I am getting the feeling that the next President coming in January (assuming the US has an election) will be more akin to a Deer in a Headlight.
I think that if they want to save the Federal government they are going to have to.
As far as elections: the military hates the neocons (they are getting sick of the bad press about their troops getting hacked up then shipped to a rat infested hospital) the CIA would like to see them shipped somewhere else, the FBI is not in love with the White House and there are 50 governors and many state legislatures that are waiting with great expectation for their departure.
If the neocons try to weigh lay the next election, they will most likely soon be facing charges for treason.
Another 911 is not going to be so easy to capitalize on the second time.
2009 will be a year of massive bank failures, avalanche levels of foreclosures and collapsing businesses, insurance companies, pension funds and financials. By 2010 any incumbent in office is going to be looking for a new job. They are going to try anything to attempt a remedy for situation. Since the FED is going to evolve into enemy number one soon, they will be about the first to go.
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1195 Location: Central NC
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Here is an interesting read, best to read in its entirety.
Link: http://www.dunwalke.com _________________ "The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
shortonoil wrote:
I think that if they want to save the Federal government they are going to have to.
Want and can are two different things though. I only follow the whole thing losely, but neither McCain nor Obama strike me as someone who understands the current issue, nor do they seem to have anybody on their staff (from cursory looking) that does.
Quote:
As far as elections: the military hates the neocons (they are getting sick of the bad press about their troops getting hacked up then shipped to a rat infested hospital) the CIA would like to see them shipped somewhere else, the FBI is not in love with the White House and there are 50 governors and many state legislatures that are waiting with great expectation for their departure.
If the neocons try to weigh lay the next election, they will most likely soon be facing charges for treason.
That would be interesting to see, and IMO is way overdue anyway on a variety of charges, but I am the eternal cynic and don't necessarily think that it would play out that way.
Quote:
Another 911 is not going to be so easy to capitalize on the second time.
That is to be hoped for too, but once again, I am at times surprised the average persons stupidity, but then, a lot seem to be already in shellshock with both Iraq (to some degree) and the financial markets.
Quote:
2009 will be a year of massive bank failures, avalanche levels of foreclosures and collapsing businesses, insurance companies, pension funds and financials. By 2010 any incumbent in office is going to be looking for a new job. They are going to try anything to attempt a remedy for situation. Since the FED is going to evolve into enemy number one soon, they will be about the first to go.
Although I think you're right in your assessment, I do not think that the necessary guts really exist to make this happen. It would require a massive restructuring on how things are done right now and essentially involve cutting lose a lot of people in the process....
I cannot see either McCain or Obama making that call, I think they will stry to stick more fingers into the holes hoping to slow down the water enough and getting rescued by a miracle.
The only thing currently still keeping the ship afloat is that all the other countries are trying their darnest to help the US, but if there are more problems "hitting home" they may just abandond their efforts and start pumping on their own ships.
We've already all got wet feet, just not everybody has noticed it yet.
Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 756 Location: Illinois
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Micki wrote:
Stopping an illegal practice is hardly capital control.
The risk of these criminals taking their business elsewhere - NIL. Naked shorters haven't contributed anything and therefore nothing lost. Infact it stops money from leaving the country in those cases where the illegal shorts are by international gangsters.
Then why did the "market makers" just get a green light to continue this illegal activity? Are the "market makers" international gangsters? _________________ The oil barrel is half-full.
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Micki wrote:
....
Cube, not sure if you have misunderstood the issue.
Naked shorting is not short selling per se.
There is no major problem with short selling.
Normally short selling involves 1) someone borrowing shares
2) selling these with the intent of buying them back later at a lower price 3) buying back & returning the the borrowed shares.
Nakes shorting is selling shares that don't exits.
Therefore you can sell unlimited amount of shares.
....
ahh gotcha.
my mistake.
some interesting info about US taxes
Quote:
The United States is the only major country on the planet that taxes citizens on their worldwide income, no matter where those citizens happen to live.
....
To permanently disconnect from U.S. tax obligations, a U.S. citizen must not only leave the United States, but also take the radical step of giving up U.S. citizenship. This process (from a U.S. standpoint) is called expatriation.
Quote:
Leave the USA, Pay an "Exit Tax"
Quote:
Is expatriation for you? The decision to give up U.S. citizenship is a serious one. It requires that you obtain a passport from another country, leave the United States permanently, and set up residence in a suitable jurisdiction.
Yeah I know what a lot of people are going to say: "boo hoo why should I feel sorry for the top 2% richest?"
Remember folks it always trickles down to you.
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
HBOS rights issue results out tomorrow, it could be a painful day for banks depending on whether the failure meets or exceeds expectations. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Australia
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
kublikhan wrote:
Micki wrote:
Stopping an illegal practice is hardly capital control.
The risk of these criminals taking their business elsewhere - NIL. Naked shorters haven't contributed anything and therefore nothing lost. Infact it stops money from leaving the country in those cases where the illegal shorts are by international gangsters.
Then why did the "market makers" just get a green light to continue this illegal activity? Are the "market makers" international gangsters?
Must have missed that part. Any link? _________________ It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" - Nancy Pelosi
Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 756 Location: Illinois
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Iaato posted this earlier, but here it is again:
Iaato wrote:
Huh? So remember those 19 market-makers who the SEC was going to prevent naked shorting of?
Quote:
"Here's The Deal
Anyone in the above list [those same 19 favored few] can continue to naked short with full approval from the SEC. No one else can.
The implications are that the market makers will be accumulating massive quantities of financial shorts as everyone else is squeezed out.
Looking one step ahead, think what happens to the bid after everyone else is squeezed out and the market makers hold all the financial shorts.
If the intent of the SEC was to force prices up, it is going to fail big time, in due time. If the SEC's intent was to temporarily increase the trading profits of the broker dealers, it will succeed."
Investors in UK bank HBOS have overwhelmingly declined the chance to buy new shares in it. The bank has announced that just 8.29% of the new shares offered in its £4bn rights issue were taken up.
These were the expectations at the weekend:
The Observer wrote:
HBOS, Britain's biggest mortgage provider, will tomorrow reveal that its £4bn rights issue to raise extra capital to cope with the credit crunch has been one of the biggest fund-raising flops in UK corporate history.
If the market turns against HBOS tomorrow, the underwriters and sub-underwriters will be forced to hold on to the stock until they can sell at a profit.
Or they could commence unloading it to keep their losses to a minimum. Money has time value and it could well be many years before their stake is profitable. They could do a lot more with that cash in the meantime. Playing politics would not be responsible to their shareholders, I would think. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
I think this is an excellent, excellent article. They are pumping their own newsletter somewhat, but their analysis of the current situation, the dangers we face, as well as the dishonesty at the highest levels is spot on in my opinion. They discuss inflation, the energy situation, unemployment, bank health, the Fed, TPTB, the dollar, and the kitchen sink too.
The one thing I'm surprised about is that they didn't mention PMs.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
cube wrote:
Remember folks it always trickles down to you.
No Sh**? It may trickle down to us, but it geysers UP to them. The catch all trickle down justification, is somewhat appropriate at certain times. But now? You may as well say being shaken down by a protection racket is good for all of us in the long run.
NEW YORK, July 21 (Reuters) - The cost to insure the debt of Countrywide Financial Corp’s home loan unit rose on Monday after Bank of America Corp’s chief financial officer said the bank doesn’t intend to guarantee Countrywide’s debt.
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