Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
That is brilliant! _________________ "I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 1715 Location: Australia
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
hironegro wrote:
What will be the consequences for banning naked short selling?
Naked shorting already IS illegal.
SEC is just another corrupt banking controlled arm of the government that choses to selectively enforcerules.
When junior mining companies are shorted until the go under, with phantom shares that is in multiples of the real shares, they don't care.
If feel this is such an important issue that I will re-iterate my request for everyone to send in their comments/complaints to SEC
Micki wrote:
Unless you guys have given up totally already, you can send your comments on SEC selective enforcement of law, to SEC at the following page; SEC Comments for ruling s7-19-07
It only takes a minute to lodge comments. I urge everyone to do so.
If you feel that you need to catch up on the issue with Naked Shorting etc check out: DeepcaptureTheMovie _________________ Lets take a ride, and run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
You cant hide, run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
- Pet Shop Boys
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
jupiters_release said:
Quote:
How much of that is owed directly or indirectly to The Fed and other supranational central banks?
Since that tragic day 45 years ago when a bullet ripped through John F. Kennedy, Presidential security has been vastly improved. The fact that George W. Bush has not cut his leg off with his brush hog is proof that all contingencies have been accounted for.
The next president, who will be safe, will be handed the politically sensitive job of restructuring the nation’s collapsing banking system. With Ron Paul sent ahead as messenger, one of the next President’s first courses of action will be to reinitiate J.F.K’s executive order 11110.
After the failure of several hundred banks nation wide, and more entering the queue on a regular bases, to restore faith in US currency and the banking system we will once again have a Treasury backed currency, and eventually a Treasury regulated banking system. The price of gold, the FED’s biggest adversary for 90 years, will be elevated to sky-high prices. The rest of the world will follow.
The FED, who at one time owned 40% of the Treasury notes issued, and now having a book value of less than $350 billion and one large sack of crap, will be quietly issued off the premises. Goldspun, Hank and Ben who have contributed heartily to the most disastrous economic policy in history, will have left a gutted out Central Bank that will never again respond to resuscitation.
The only condolence to be found in this staggering upheaval will be that the next Central Bank’s operators can’t do any worse a job than the last ones.
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
shortonoil wrote:
The next president, who will be safe, will be handed the politically sensitive job of restructuring the nation’s collapsing banking system. With Ron Paul sent ahead as messenger, one of the next President’s first courses of action will be to reinitiate J.F.K’s executive order 11110.
And you think that's likely? I am getting the feeling that the next President coming in January (assuming the US has an election) will be more akin to a Deer in a Headlight. I am not quite sure why either McCain or Obama actually WANT the job. Congress has failed, and a new person at the top (with still limited power) will hardly be able to change something that neither Democratic nor Republican Congress where able (or willing to) accomplish.
Quote:
After the failure of several hundred banks nation wide, and more entering the queue on a regular bases, to restore faith in US currency and the banking system we will once again have a Treasury backed currency, and eventually a Treasury regulated banking system. The price of gold, the FED’s biggest adversary for 90 years, will be elevated to sky-high prices. The rest of the world will follow.
So how, outside of a massive depresseion and a complete "re-set" will the Ghost get out of the machine? They have gamed the system for so long that not even the guy holding the deck knows what has been played and what each player holds.
The only way I could see this working is a complete re-set, the abolishion of the current USD, the "reset to square one" scenario. But if the Fed (or whatever is coming after her) is doing this, the rest of the world will be anything but willing to trust the new guy right away.
Quote:
The FED, who at one time owned 40% of the Treasury notes issued, and now having a book value of less than $350 billion and one large sack of crap, will be quietly issued off the premises. Goldspun, Hank and Ben who have contributed heartily to the most disastrous economic policy in history, will have left a gutted out Central Bank that will never again respond to resuscitation.
The only condolence to be found in this staggering upheaval will be that the next Central Bank’s operators can’t do any worse a job than the last ones.
That assumes that there will be a central bank and not just a "we quit" notice from several states using this as an opportunity to strike out on their own. I know I know there are "provisions" that would prevent a break up of the US. But I can't quite shake the feeling that there will be very few States who would necessarily support a move to "keep it all together".
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 1715 Location: Australia
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
cube wrote:
hironegro wrote:
What will be the consequences for banning naked short selling?
capital controls == capital flight
If you're an investor and government stepped in and told you what you can and cannot do with your money what do you do?
simple --> get the hell out
Cube, not sure if you have misunderstood the issue.
Naked shorting is not short selling per se.
There is no major problem with short selling.
Normally short selling involves 1) someone borrowing shares
2) selling these with the intent of buying them back later at a lower price 3) buying back & returning the the borrowed shares.
Nakes shorting is selling shares that don't exits.
Therefore you can sell unlimited amount of shares.
For example a junior company that has issued 100,000,000 shares and has a normal turnarounf of about 1,000,000 shares.
Someone wanting to short this naked can sell 2,000,000 shares a day in order to drive down the price. Theoretically there is no cap to how many shares they sell as they don't exist. If the share price finds support and buyers for the 2Million shares a day, they just sell more. Eventually the share price goes to rock bottom.
The illegal share seller can cover at steep discount or the company may even go under, in which case the shorter doesn't cover at all.
Stopping an illegal practice is hardly capital control.
The risk of these criminals taking their business elsewhere - NIL. Naked shorters haven't contributed anything and therefore nothing lost. Infact it stops money from leaving the country in those cases where the illegal shorts are by international gangsters. _________________ Lets take a ride, and run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
You cant hide, run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
- Pet Shop Boys
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Snowrunner said:
Quote:
And you think that's likely? I am getting the feeling that the next President coming in January (assuming the US has an election) will be more akin to a Deer in a Headlight.
I think that if they want to save the Federal government they are going to have to.
As far as elections: the military hates the neocons (they are getting sick of the bad press about their troops getting hacked up then shipped to a rat infested hospital) the CIA would like to see them shipped somewhere else, the FBI is not in love with the White House and there are 50 governors and many state legislatures that are waiting with great expectation for their departure.
If the neocons try to weigh lay the next election, they will most likely soon be facing charges for treason.
Another 911 is not going to be so easy to capitalize on the second time.
2009 will be a year of massive bank failures, avalanche levels of foreclosures and collapsing businesses, insurance companies, pension funds and financials. By 2010 any incumbent in office is going to be looking for a new job. They are going to try anything to attempt a remedy for situation. Since the FED is going to evolve into enemy number one soon, they will be about the first to go.
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1162 Location: Central NC
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Here is an interesting read, best to read in its entirety.
Link: http://www.dunwalke.com _________________ "The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
shortonoil wrote:
I think that if they want to save the Federal government they are going to have to.
Want and can are two different things though. I only follow the whole thing losely, but neither McCain nor Obama strike me as someone who understands the current issue, nor do they seem to have anybody on their staff (from cursory looking) that does.
Quote:
As far as elections: the military hates the neocons (they are getting sick of the bad press about their troops getting hacked up then shipped to a rat infested hospital) the CIA would like to see them shipped somewhere else, the FBI is not in love with the White House and there are 50 governors and many state legislatures that are waiting with great expectation for their departure.
If the neocons try to weigh lay the next election, they will most likely soon be facing charges for treason.
That would be interesting to see, and IMO is way overdue anyway on a variety of charges, but I am the eternal cynic and don't necessarily think that it would play out that way.
Quote:
Another 911 is not going to be so easy to capitalize on the second time.
That is to be hoped for too, but once again, I am at times surprised the average persons stupidity, but then, a lot seem to be already in shellshock with both Iraq (to some degree) and the financial markets.
Quote:
2009 will be a year of massive bank failures, avalanche levels of foreclosures and collapsing businesses, insurance companies, pension funds and financials. By 2010 any incumbent in office is going to be looking for a new job. They are going to try anything to attempt a remedy for situation. Since the FED is going to evolve into enemy number one soon, they will be about the first to go.
Although I think you're right in your assessment, I do not think that the necessary guts really exist to make this happen. It would require a massive restructuring on how things are done right now and essentially involve cutting lose a lot of people in the process....
I cannot see either McCain or Obama making that call, I think they will stry to stick more fingers into the holes hoping to slow down the water enough and getting rescued by a miracle.
The only thing currently still keeping the ship afloat is that all the other countries are trying their darnest to help the US, but if there are more problems "hitting home" they may just abandond their efforts and start pumping on their own ships.
We've already all got wet feet, just not everybody has noticed it yet.
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Micki wrote:
Stopping an illegal practice is hardly capital control.
The risk of these criminals taking their business elsewhere - NIL. Naked shorters haven't contributed anything and therefore nothing lost. Infact it stops money from leaving the country in those cases where the illegal shorts are by international gangsters.
Then why did the "market makers" just get a green light to continue this illegal activity? Are the "market makers" international gangsters? _________________ The oil barrel is half-full.
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Micki wrote:
....
Cube, not sure if you have misunderstood the issue.
Naked shorting is not short selling per se.
There is no major problem with short selling.
Normally short selling involves 1) someone borrowing shares
2) selling these with the intent of buying them back later at a lower price 3) buying back & returning the the borrowed shares.
Nakes shorting is selling shares that don't exits.
Therefore you can sell unlimited amount of shares.
....
ahh gotcha.
my mistake.
some interesting info about US taxes
Quote:
The United States is the only major country on the planet that taxes citizens on their worldwide income, no matter where those citizens happen to live.
....
To permanently disconnect from U.S. tax obligations, a U.S. citizen must not only leave the United States, but also take the radical step of giving up U.S. citizenship. This process (from a U.S. standpoint) is called expatriation.
Quote:
Leave the USA, Pay an "Exit Tax"
Quote:
Is expatriation for you? The decision to give up U.S. citizenship is a serious one. It requires that you obtain a passport from another country, leave the United States permanently, and set up residence in a suitable jurisdiction.
Yeah I know what a lot of people are going to say: "boo hoo why should I feel sorry for the top 2% richest?"
Remember folks it always trickles down to you.
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 1715 Location: Australia
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
kublikhan wrote:
Micki wrote:
Stopping an illegal practice is hardly capital control.
The risk of these criminals taking their business elsewhere - NIL. Naked shorters haven't contributed anything and therefore nothing lost. Infact it stops money from leaving the country in those cases where the illegal shorts are by international gangsters.
Then why did the "market makers" just get a green light to continue this illegal activity? Are the "market makers" international gangsters?
Must have missed that part. Any link? _________________ Lets take a ride, and run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
You cant hide, run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
- Pet Shop Boys
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Iaato posted this earlier, but here it is again:
Iaato wrote:
Huh? So remember those 19 market-makers who the SEC was going to prevent naked shorting of?
Quote:
"Here's The Deal
Anyone in the above list [those same 19 favored few] can continue to naked short with full approval from the SEC. No one else can.
The implications are that the market makers will be accumulating massive quantities of financial shorts as everyone else is squeezed out.
Looking one step ahead, think what happens to the bid after everyone else is squeezed out and the market makers hold all the financial shorts.
If the intent of the SEC was to force prices up, it is going to fail big time, in due time. If the SEC's intent was to temporarily increase the trading profits of the broker dealers, it will succeed."
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That is brilliant!
