How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
SoylentGreen wrote:
Im sure Iran can get a couple punches in if they counterstrike without hesitation. Militarily, its no contest.
It will just be the excuse the US needs to destroy most of Irans military infastructure and target thier leadership with the latest smart weapons.
And economically, the US will soon have hard times with or without the war. Israel can't stand long without American support.
The outcomes will be the same no matter what. It is unfortunate that the US has to leave yet another shattered country as its legacy.
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
NoahsDove wrote:
I wonder if America will resemble Post WWI Germany in few years? This sort of thought may have been unthinkable few years ago, but not now. I would imagine Jews will become primary scapegoats.
link1 link2 link3
Jews become primary scapegoats? You must be kidding. It's not going to be based on race this time. It'll be based on class and political affiliation.
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
I dont think Bush is going to attack Iran,, he has less then 6 months as prez and his plate is full with 2 wars now,, Israel will do the attack and we will back them, but that is about all..
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
I dunno, isnt there some sort of law or something that says a president can stay for like an extra term or something during a major war ? Maybe bush will attack Iran to "protect the american people from rogue nukes" and then try and refuse to step down after the next election ?
Anyway , the prospect of anymore resourse wars is very scary to me .
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
Mack12345 wrote:
I dunno, isnt there some sort of law or something that says a president can stay for like an extra term or something during a major war ? Maybe bush will attack Iran to "protect the american people from rogue nukes" and then try and refuse to step down after the next election ?
Anyway , the prospect of anymore resourse wars is very scary to me .
I think there is some wartime clause in the terror legislations.
Canada has had one for some time, though quite limited... maybe the US had something similar that the terror laws revised. I'm no expert on US policies/laws.
The earlier talk of the US being like Germany is interesting: Hitler used just such a clause to gain his dictatorial power and hold office indefinitely.
Joined: Oct 06, 2006 Posts: 1011 Location: was rwwff
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
Yall are so obsessed with Bush, its funny. He's acting exactly like a president near the end of his term might; especially if he is trying to narrow the options of an incoming administration. _________________ Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
Joined: Dec 25, 2005 Posts: 554 Location: Hillsboro, West Virginia
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
Serial_Worrier wrote:
SoylentGreen wrote:
???? Serial Worrier???? I dont believe there is an aircraft in the IAF that hasnt been blessed by a rabbi or an Isreali male fighter jock who isnt circumsized.Do you?
Like I said, your virulent Jew-hate isn't welcome here.
Stuff it. What Soylent said isn't "virulent Jew-hate." It was a very mild disrespect. The same sort offered frequently toward Israel's enemies all the time without American voices being heard to object. Jews have notoriously thin skins, but they aren't entitled to an immunity that nobody else has, and since Jews dish out loads of disrespect to Christians, Muslims, Arabs, and White Southerners, they can jolly well take same or they can go to hell.
Joined: Dec 25, 2005 Posts: 554 Location: Hillsboro, West Virginia
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
NoahsDove wrote:
I wonder if America will resemble Post WWI Germany in few years? This sort of thought may have been unthinkable few years ago, but not now. I would imagine Jews will become primary scapegoats.
It's possible, I suppose, though the Jews were not so much scapegoated as discovered. The word scapegoated implies that the Jews weren't doing what Hitler saw them doing (e.g., leading communism, promoting vice, controlling the media, corrupting government with finance), when, in fact, they were; or that their activities did not harm Germany or its people, when, in fact, they did. Americans generally don't have enough Jew-related education to understand why the Jews represent a danger to them. But perhaps Peak Oil will clarify things. As I said, it's possible.
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
Jenab666 wrote :
It's possible, I suppose, though the Jews were not so much scapegoated as discovered. The word scapegoated implies that the Jews weren't doing what Hitler saw them doing (e.g., leading communism, promoting vice, controlling the media, corrupting government with finance), when, in fact, they were; or that their activities did not harm Germany or its people, when, in fact, they did. Americans generally don't have enough Jew-related education to understand why the Jews represent a danger to them. But perhaps Peak Oil will clarify things. As I said, it's possible.
[ OH PLEASE we dont need any Jew haters here at peakoil or any where as a matter of fact ]
Slightly less colorful title than SoylentGreen posted, but the gist is the same and it's an AP story. _________________ "Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young
Slightly less colorful title than SoylentGreen posted, but the gist is the same and it's an AP story.
Thanks for the link. I think everyone knows that Iran is playing the 'stall' game. What's funny is they just humiliated the US, and no one mentions it. I'm not sure I'm keen on Iran having nukes, but then again, I'm not sure I'm keen on anyone having them. What a bunch of hypocrites we are...
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: The Economist on Iran war: "Be afraid"
You know... the more I think about it the more I'm beginning to realize just how seriously some people seem to want Iran to have access to nukes.
There are also some pretty good points on just how hard it would be to get rid of Iran's nuclear program with a direct conventional attack. Maybe just maybe, Israel's best choice for preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons comes from the fact that they are NOT a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
If Iran had nuclear weapons, Israel might find that it's in its interests to attempt to balance that out by secretly turning Kurdistan (currently parts of Turkey, Iraq and Iran) in to a full fledged nuclear power. Then take a step back and let the chips fall where they may...
If there are nightmares that keep Iran's leaders awake at night, I would say this is easily one of them.
"If" Israel has nukes. Those nukes which "may or may not" exist were not given to them by the United States. They were developed in house by Israel using their own technological expertise. This means that Israel can't be told what they can or can't do with them. You can't use nukes by setting them off in cities, but you can get almost the same level of effect by giving them away...
Knowing all this, Iran will wait until it gets as much as it thinks it can get from the negotiations and then give in on the nuclear issue.
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