Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
I read a lot of other sites for more direct news (I try to go to the forums where the people have boots on the street to hear what they are saying) and it's frightening how distorted and broken the fundamentals are versus what Joe Six Pack believes is true due to the pablum he/she is fed from the Main Stream Media.
Just talked to my friend and the regulators have been there for 3 months. He told me that they haven't been siezed yet because the FDIC hasn't found a buyer yet. They typically don't seize the bank until they know they can offload it off on another bank or buyer. That's why Indymac threw them a curve. They were watching the other banks on their list and when Indymac went down, the FDIC has to completely run the bank until they can find someone to take it over. My friend told me that they are selling CD'S like mad and don't care if they go over the $100k limit right under the regulators noses.
The fact is that the FDIC has been doing the same **** that the banks have been doing with foreclosures; hiding them. Even though a bank is way under capital requirements, the regulators are still letting them operate like nothing as changed. That is why we haven't seen more banks going down. Keep hiding the sausage until things improve.
"Against a backdrop of global credit uncertainties, falling property prices and lower reinvestment rates, the industry model has collapsed," said Mark Hotchin, joint owner of the company with Eric Watson.
A treatise on how debt evolved since pre-Great Depression days, to the current crisis. This is an extremely well-written piece.
Asia Times: Debt Capitalism Self-Destructs
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Bush drops opposition to FNM/FRE & housing bailout.
Quote:
AP
Bush drops opposition to housing bill
Wednesday July 23, 10:34 am ET
By Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Associated Press Writer
Bush drops opposition to Democratic-sponsored housing bill hours before expected House vote
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush dropped his opposition Wednesday to a broad housing package aimed at bolstering the sagging economy, despite his objections to including $3.9 billion for neighborhoods hit hardest by foreclosures. The House was expected to vote on the bill Wednesday, and it could become law as early as this week.
ADVERTISEMENT
Under the bill, the government would help struggling homeowners get new, cheaper loans and would be allowed to offer troubled mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac a cash infusion.
The Bush administration and lawmakers in both parties teamed to negotiate the measure, which pairs Democrats' top priorities -- federal help for homeowners facing foreclosure and $3.9 billion for devastated neighborhoods -- with Republicans' goal of reining in mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac while reassuring financial markets of their stability.
Bush had objected to the neighborhood grants, which would be for buying and fixing up foreclosed properties, saying that they were aimed at helping bankers and lenders, not homeowners who are in trouble.
White House press secretary Dana Perino announced Bush's switch in a telephone conference call with reporters. "We believe this is not the time for a prolonged veto fight, but we are confident the president would prevail in one," she said.
...
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
emersonbiggins wrote:
Bush drops opposition to FNM/FRE & housing bailout.
*Gag*
Screw this. I'm turning in all my dollars & buying cold hard gold. It's that or sit here idly while they whittle away what's left of the value right out of my bank account. Congratulations Bush: the one chance you maybe had left to NOT Fark up totally and utterly - you just blew it.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
jbrovont wrote:
emersonbiggins wrote:
Bush drops opposition to FNM/FRE & housing bailout.
*Gag*
Screw this. I'm turning in all my dollars & buying cold hard gold. It's that or sit here idly while they whittle away what's left of the value right out of my bank account. Congratulations Bush: the one chance you maybe had left to NOT Fark up totally and utterly - you just blew it.
PMs are down right now since lots of money fled commodities recently. This is an EXCELLENT time to buy, IMHO. I just hope they are still down next Thursday on payday.
After congress passes this "Weapons of Mass Dollar Destruction" bill today, I think PMs/Oil/Corn/etc are going to resume their brisk march upwards.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
I cant believe on a peak OIL website people are applauding the Chinese and commenting on their global strength.
How about the fact they heavily subsidize fuel costs which is really eating into their budget, or the fact that when the Olympics are over they will probably slash that subsidy and their economy will have a sudden halt because of energy costs?
Its like people think China is iummune to energy costs.... _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Micki said:
Quote:
If you had scrolled up a few posts you woul have seen the same + similar news from LA Times.
It has since then popped up in quite a few sites.
Not sure how many of these base their articles on the one and same source though.
Quote:
Washington Mutual: "We have a check-hold policy that takes into consideration a variety of factors, for example, the amount of the check and the state where the check originated," she said.
Quote:
Wells Fargo & Co. did express concern about people creating fraudulent IndyMac checks, but said it is following the same guidelines it applies to all bank checks, which can include a hold on the check.
Micki, all of these links essentially quote from the same sources, verbatim. There is no explanation in any (that makes any sense) as why some of these banks don’t want to process the FDIC, Indymac checks. The only conclusion, since they are not all delaying processing these checks, is that many banks do not have the cash reserves to handle them without first receiving the funds from the FDIC.
I would conclude that these banks have not been re-liquefied by the FED’s money pump, and are still on very thin ice.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
Specop_007 said:
Quote:
I cant believe on a peak OIL website people are applauding the Chinese and commenting on their global strength.
Agree with you totally Specop, China represents the greatest misallocation of resources in the history of the planet. China, because of misallocation of farm land and environmental damage, probably can no longer feed its populous without importation. Its banking system is a disaster waiting to happen, where 40% of its loans are non performing and are granted without consideration to financial analysis or project planning. This has resulted in the duplication of a huge amount of industry that can not operate profitably, and therefore, must continually borrow their operating capital to remain in operation.
Further more, their infrastructure is one of the most energy inefficient on the planet. Consuming almost twice the amount of energy per dollar/renminbi as comparable US industry. At least 5% of China’s power plants are usually shut down for lack of fuel, and outages of refined petroleum products continually plague every city in China.
China is burning its candle from both ends, and when it goes down it will make the Asian Contagion look like a bank over draft.
The Lame Stream Media, however, has been very good at convincing people that China is the epitome and future of modern civilization. Surely, the Globalist that own the Media couldn’t be investing in China - now could they?
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2691 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
It take an absolutely BRILLIANT person to pull money out of an FDIC seized bank only to go deposit it at Wamu
Good point Short...I hadn't thought of the other banks not having the cash in the vault & have to wait for the FDIC check to clear. That is NOT a pretty picture! _________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
The number of new mortgages approved by the major banks fell another 23% in June to a new record low.
The British Bankers' Association (BBA) said its members approved just 21,118 new home loans in June, down from 27,499 in May.
The figures were also 67% lower than in June last year.
The collapse in sales and fall in house prices has been caused by the mortgage drought, which was triggered by the credit crunch in the banking system.
Soon most of the mortgages being approved could be on repossessed properties. The banks still have an incentive to lend then!
I have seen several apartment developments completed in the last couple of months, all stand empty. Earlier this week I saw a whole neighbourhood lying silent during the day, several suburban streets interrupted in the process of being landscaped, rows of empty newly completed buildings with For Sale signs in the windows and some apparently abandoned while the bricks were still being laid at ground level. Who is going to buy an apartment in an empty building, in one of several rows of empty buildings, with the one next door and several beside it just chest-high shells? The banks will lose billions of pounds once the builders carrying the debt collapse. As they will when they find that some of those loans have no asset, nothing with any residual value except a plot of land with planning permission backing them. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2691 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
I have a coworker that's closing on a house tomorrow, he told me today that he's waiting on approval from HUD (even though his mortgage is thru WF and he is NOT a first time home buyer)...It would seem that HUD has to approve EVERY home loan now.
Has anybody heard of this? _________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
AlexdeLarge wrote:
"The notion some neo-cons seem to have that the US could take on China militarily is laughable at best"
No neo-con worth his salt would ever suggest such a thing. The US cannot militarily confront China anymore than China can confront the US. It will be a proxy war.
Why do you think we invaded Iraq first?
i don't think that's quite accurate. in my opinion, we could clean their clock in the air and on the sea. so, it really depends where you take them on and what the circumstances are. for example, big naval engagement for control of the seas... we win, and control of the seas is a very very big deal.
on the other hand, i agree that no one wants such a confrontation, and that a war by proxy is the most likely scenario if it comes down to it.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5928 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
shortonoil wrote:
Micki said:
Quote:
If you had scrolled up a few posts you woul have seen the same + similar news from LA Times.
It has since then popped up in quite a few sites.
Not sure how many of these base their articles on the one and same source though.
Quote:
Washington Mutual: "We have a check-hold policy that takes into consideration a variety of factors, for example, the amount of the check and the state where the check originated," she said.
Quote:
Wells Fargo & Co. did express concern about people creating fraudulent IndyMac checks, but said it is following the same guidelines it applies to all bank checks, which can include a hold on the check.
Micki, all of these links essentially quote from the same sources, verbatim. There is no explanation in any (that makes any sense) as why some of these banks don’t want to process the FDIC, Indymac checks. The only conclusion, since they are not all delaying processing these checks, is that many banks do not have the cash reserves to handle them without first receiving the funds from the FDIC.
I would conclude that these banks have not been re-liquefied by the FED’s money pump, and are still on very thin ice.
The FDIC has not yet sold off portions of IndyMac and does not appear to have paid off the FHLBB (see below). Since the FHLBB has cliam to just about all the good assets of IndyMac, the FDIC would have to start using its reserves to pay off IndyMac's debts. I am not sure if that has happened yet either.
So there does appear to be some reason to doubt the checks written by the FDIC.
And this is just the first failure of many more to come.
Quote:
National Mortgage News
July 21, 2008
Volume 32; Issue 41
IndyMac Reverse Loans in Limbo
Brad Finkelstein
PASADENA, CA Among the things placed in limbo by the failure and government takeover of IndyMac Bank FSB here is the reverse mortgage business the parent company was planning to build its future around and the sale of the retail mortgage origination branches it had closed.
A research report by Friedman Billings Ramsey, said the failure, the second largest by asset size in American history, could be the costliest.
The Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco said it has $10.1 billion in outstanding advances to IndyMac, which are protected by a perfected security interest in $21.6 billion of mortgage loans and mortgage-backed securities. This takes precedence over the FDIC's claims on the thrift's assets.
"Subject to the terms of its agreements with IndyMac Bank, the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco will work with the FDIC in its administration of the assets and liabilities of the new institution," the FHLB of San Francisco said in a statement.
The rating agency said it thinks uninsured depositors could receive even more funds as they have priority over unsecured creditors of IndyMac. But those holding "non-deposit obligations" and preferred shareholders will have minimal to no recovery.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5928 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress - #2
The SEC has been very effective is stopping short selling in financial stocks.
Their order sent out last week has greatly discouraged all kinds of short selling, not just naked short selling they obstensibly were trying to stop.
We'll see how well banks can raise capital. Brokers generally short sell short stock ahead of new issues so that they can buy the new stock when it comes out. But who will make a market in financials
now?
Quote:
AP Alert - Financial
The Associated Press
July 23, 2008
SEC Emergency Order Leads to Dramatic Drop in Short Selling of
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Securities
SEC Emergency Order Leads to Dramatic Drop in Short-Selling of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Securities
Business Intelligence Firm Reports 90 Percent Reduction
(http://www.s3.com)
According to market statistics analyzed by S3 Matching Technologies, the SEC's emergency order to enhance investor protections against "naked" short selling in 17 financial institution securities has reduced short sells by about 70 percent for the targeted symbols, and 90 percent of short selling of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac securities. S3, which processes trades for the country's largest brokerages, compared short sells of Monday, July 14, prior to the SEC order, and Monday, July 21, the first day the emergency rule was implemented.
"Looking at the data from our clients," said Jack Holt, CEO of S3 Matching Technologies, "it seems clear the market responded to what regulators wanted. Short sells, 'naked' or not, have accounted for a little over 1 percent of our clients' total volume. 2/3rds of that short sell volume disappeared on the first day the rule went into effect. For Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, it's more dramatic at 90 percent."
The SEC's emergency rule identified symbols critical to stability of the financial markets and ordered that the securities be delivered at the time short sells were settled. According to S3's Holt, analysis of his company's data shows the emergency rule appears to have all but eliminated the short selling of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac securities, two institutions that many analysts feared were at risk of collapse.
"The short sell slowdown during the first day was very significant across the targeted symbols," Holt added. "While there is no way for data to reveal if a short sell is 'naked,' there's no doubt the SEC has put a rule in place that has drastically reduced short selling, especially with regards to the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage institutions."
S3 Matching Technologies processes about 15 billion financial transactions daily and provides business intelligence reports on more than a million securities trade orders and stock options.
[no link] _________________ It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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